Southwest Mulling Bid
- Thread starter CaptBud330
- Start date
700UW said:
Do you comprehend what 1-1/2 hours or even 2 hours travel distance from CLT means? Autofixer says it better than I can at this point and far more nicely than I can. Try reading it and then comprehending what is being said. You're not always right 700 but then again in your own little twisted mind you just might be.
With WN ALREADY being in RDU says alot about the market. If you don't think people drive from CLT to RDU for a cheaper fare you're crazier than I think you are and even I don't think you're that crazy....but then again...
ClueByFour
Veteran
MrAeroMan said:
Even with SC factored in, it's not even close.
According to the US Census 2003 estimates (which you can find here http://www.census.gov/population/www/estim...ges_final.html), the combined Charlotte-Gastonia-Salisbury, NC-SC statistical area has a population of about 2,025,541. Pittsburgh-New Castle, PA has 2,503,738. Now, the CLT stuff does include a good chunk of SC. PIT does not include places like Youngstown/Warren/Boardman, which are closer to PIT than CLE, and now that LUV has lowered fares in PIT to something reasonable it's fair to add that area to PIT's cachement (figure another 700k). PIT is bigger than CLT.
CLT is growing, whereas PIT is shrinking. The rate of population shrinkage in Western PA has dropped off pretty significantly.
As for the costs, if CLT dropped from 500+ US flights/day to 200, it's costs still would not be what PIT's are, but they would go up dramatically (just as PIT's did).
avek00 said:
True, but...
1. This was voluntary, i.e not in BK... in fact it was prior to BK.
2. This was to appease DOJ Anti-trust issues
This comparison is apples and oranges.
usairways85 said:
During the barage of announcements and stories about DCAir at the time it was leaked that AA's code was going to be on DCAir (DL was ruled out because they were already too big), so it would have been an AAEagle or AACnx carrier. This was to mollify AA. Water under the bridge...
LD3
Veteran
As for the costs, if CLT dropped from 500+ US flights/day to 200, it's costs still would not be what PIT's are, but they would go up dramatically (just as PIT's did).
And you know this for a fact?
And you know this for a fact?
ClueByFour
Veteran
LD3 said:
Without additional funding, yes, it's a fact.
Fixed costs/lesser number of pax=higher cost per pax.
That is, unless you are aware of some breakthru mathematics that the rest of the world is not aware of.
While there is no doubt WN could prosper at CLT (it pretty much prospers everywhere since it cherry picks, pretty succesfully) the CLT airport cachement is no where near 8 million. If you start going above 2 hours, at least on the East Coast, there is generally another airport that most of those people can drive to quicker.
If you went to four hours, PIT's cachement would include all of the DC area! (let alone the massive cachement of a place like PHL). As per costs, CLT doesn't have a humongous debt service like PIT (smart airport authority didn't make a billion dollar boondoogle like ACAA) so their costs would be lower even if their flight schedule went down to PITs, but it would still rise considerably without USAirways there.
If you went to four hours, PIT's cachement would include all of the DC area! (let alone the massive cachement of a place like PHL). As per costs, CLT doesn't have a humongous debt service like PIT (smart airport authority didn't make a billion dollar boondoogle like ACAA) so their costs would be lower even if their flight schedule went down to PITs, but it would still rise considerably without USAirways there.
LD3
Veteran
ClueByFour said:
Well, I am not aware of any breakthru mathematics...but I do work for the Aviation Director in CLT and do know costs will not go skyhigh....We are not paying for a 1.1 billion dollar airport like PIT, our constructions costs for the new terminal were about 700 million dollars less than PIT payed...We would not have been one of the last airports to levy a PFC if we were worried about US's future..It will remain cheap to operate in CLT regardless if US is here or not,,,,
ClueByFour
Veteran
LD3 said:
Costs will rise.
Fixed costs/number of pax=charge per pax.
Even Jerry Orr cannot alter the fundamental math--he can toss money at the left side of the equation, I guess.
LD3
Veteran
ClueByFour said:
You are quite right..Jerry cannot alter math..but you would be amazed how he can run this airport on a budget that was slashed 27% and still maintain a decent operation. At one of our last business meeting the cost per pax was below $2.00 or so was stated, even if that was to double, It would be interesting to see where CLT ranked in comparison to other airports..
LCC's want gates and the government wants them to have them. They want to see the old USAir business model go away. And that is stack a ton of flights into a good market, control most of the facilities and clog ATC , preventing competition from being able to enter the market, allowing for higher fares. They want USAir to move over in cities like PHL, DCA, LGA and be completive there like HP is in LAS and PHX. If we do it we will be around for a long time, if not we’re history.
I think the first thing to do is complete the merger in September and then figure out whom to sell gates to. You have to weight how much money you’re getting for the facilities and how the purchaser will use them against you when deciding who to do business with.
I think the first thing to do is complete the merger in September and then figure out whom to sell gates to. You have to weight how much money you’re getting for the facilities and how the purchaser will use them against you when deciding who to do business with.
skyguy25 said:
PVD and MHT were chosen specifically to siphon off travelers south and north of Boston, respectively. There's nothing even approaching metro Boston's O&D base in all of North Carolina. Similarly, ISP would never have SWA service if not for that Big Apple sitting just to the west of it.
It would have been wiser for WN to come into GSO instead of RDU. IM sure JetBlue will figure it out ... half way between RDU and CLT.
