Survey shows Delta lags behind on "brand respect"

[WorldTraveler]

anthr thread thats been turned from survey shows to union this union that vs non union... the question is what survey is or was delta doing or were they doing it and found to be lagging behind in... and how well is dl trying to get it back together in that area

Robbed,
It just goes with the territory over here…. I have no problem w/ a handful of people continuing to push the labor movement even though DL’s employees have repeatedly said they want no more unions. Interesting also that the greatest hopes for unions hangs on the FAs even though they have had more opportunities to vote for unions than probably any other group of airline employees in the history of aviation – and yet have REPEATEDLY said no.
My role is to keep the labor activists honest – such as by not allowing them to redefine outsourcing based on some narrow formula that a union managed to succeed at getting in a contract all the while resulting in a far higher level of outsourcing for all of the employees that union is supposed to represent.

Guess you have forgotten about WN, highest percentage of unionized employees, highest paid, and yet WN is the most consistent and profitable airline, and they carry more passengers domestically than any other airlines.
Dont let the facts get in your way.

Nope, I haven’t forgotten about anything.
if you would like to consider WN a peer, then yes it is included- and I do know that DL does include WN in its comparisons for compensation purposes.
But DL’s most direct comparison is with its legacy/network carrier peers who have different business models and a whole lot more history. DL’s most direct comparison is with its legacy/network carrier peers who have different business models, a whole lot more history including a trip thru BK which is what ties the legacy carriers together – and separates the legacy carriers from WN.

I have no problem with acknowledging that WN’s employees are higher paid – and I have done that repeatedly – but I also want to make very certain that it is known that DL – and AA when it emerges – have far more legacy obligations related to its pensions and postretirement benefits than WN does and that face can’t just be tossed out as insignificant.

WN does what they do very well but they are not in the exact same league as the legacy carriers. The fact that DL includes WN in their compensation comparisons says they don’t intend to offer excuses as to why their employees SHOULDN’T reach WN’s levels of compensation.

As for you, instead of nitpicking at details like this which I have repeatedly acknowledged, how about you explain why the other legacy carrier’s unionized employees don’t earn as much as DL’s non-union employees?

From Delta itself:

Thank you.

Shows exactly what I have been saying that among legacy carriers, DL’s employees are some of the highest compensated in the industry.

And if you would also like to include increases in pay over the past five years, DL’s employees outrank WN’s.

Why would any DL employee want to risk the increases in pay that have been standard and annual only to spend years waiting on a contract resolution that MIGHT include pay raises at much smaller rates?

BTW CO doesn't write any checks to FAs anymore.

It'd be nice for them not to treat us all like children.

It may be a "given" to you & I, but I can assure you there are many low information employees who still buy into the notion of the DL "family," and that it's "unique culture" is one born of benevolence...

It’s a little, uh, condescending to think that you can make an assessment of your
employment situation but some of your coworkers cannot, don’t ya think?

I don't think you will find any DL employees (or anywhere else for that matter) who will say "I have no idea what the company is doing regarding my pay and benefits."

DL has employees in cities like that. Should they be cut too, or is it okay since they're non-union?

The reason is quite simply that UA’s network is build on a strong presence in its hub cities but a much weaker presence in smaller cities.

DL’s network is much more of a system which is why they are ditching 50 seaters and upgrading to mainline aircraft – because they carry the volume of passengers out of small and medium sized cities while AA cannot.

DL’s network provides job security for its employees in places where other network carriers cannot.

 

[700UW]

$15,000 more in cash is a lot of money, WN far out paces DL in compensation.

There is no job security in the airline industry.

http://wreg.com/2013/09/03/city-helps-230-people-out-of-work-after-delta-airlines-de-hubs/

City Helps 230 People Out Of Work After Delta Airlines De-Hubs

Delta Airlines pulled the plug on its hub at Memphis International Airport Tuesday, affecting 29 non-stop flights and 200 people who are now out of work.

“Most of the people affected there were Delta ground services folks,” said Laura Hine, the deputy director of business services at the city’s Workforce Investment Network.

Out of the 230 people who lost their job, around 50 were full-time. The rest worked 20 hours a week.
Hine said she’s helping the former Delta employees find new opportunities.

“We can provide them training and tuition reimbursement. As well as connect them with any job postings we are working on,” Hine said.

Many of Delta’s check-in counters are empty, and little is listed on the departure board.
The airline is down to about 60 flights a day.

Before Delta merged with Northwest, the two airlines offered four times that.
Airport Authority President Larry Cox says there is a silver lining, because new jobs will open up when new airlines move in.

Southwest is set to open in November with nine flights a day.

Cox said he is working to recruit others.

“We are looking at Allegiant Air. We are looking at Spirit and at Frontier,” Cox said.
Cox said he will be making some exciting announcements very soon.

To find more information on the Workforce Investment Network and job opportunities, head to their website: http://www.workforceinvestmentnetwork.com/

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, we know all that MEM didn't make the cut - but you also didn't bother to notice that DL has its own employees doing BW work for DL's regional carriers in ATL in an operation that is larger than all but a couple mainline hubs in the world.

You also forgot to mention that DL is reducing its RJ operations and adding 717s (if they can get the interiors approved by the FAA) that will provide jobs for DL employees, including FAs, while other carriers add more and more RJs.

Doesn't change that you can't explain why DL's direct unionized competitors - including the ones you actually were involved with in a labor leadership capacity - don't surpass DL's employees in pay.

Quit trying to ride WN's coattails as if we are going to somehow forget what the labor movement has done for the legacy airline employees it represents.

 

[700UW]

Keep deflecting and changing the subject.

How is DL's hubs in MCO and DFW doing?

How is the hangar in TPA and DFW doing?

By the way, after the 3% raise, DL FA's will be making what their pay was back in July of 2004.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you really don't get it do you?

DL employees don't care what happened in DFW 12 years ago any more than DL's customers care about hoop skirts from decades ago.

They care about what happens today including that most of that capacity that was in NYC is now flying from NYC where DL has become the largest domestic airline in the largest air travel market in the world.

DL employees are enjoying pay and benefits that are at or above their most direct peers in the industry and DL employees have seen larger and more frequent pay raises and larger profit sharing checks than any other airline employees in the US. Bar none.

While you sit here and try to diminish what DL employees have done, many the employees you represented "enjoy" salaries well below average and a rate of outsourcing well above average.

It's not me that decides whether they want unions - it is active DL employees and they have consistently said they want none of what you are selling.

BTW, did DL have ONE hangar in DFW and TPA or are there TWO?

You still haven't been able to tell me what UNION represented airlines have their mainline employees handle their regional carriers in their hubs other than a relative handful of Ejet flights at CLT, far eclipsed by the hundreds of flights that DL's employees handle in multiple cities throughout DL's system, including LGA.

 

[Kev3188]

yes, we know all that MEM didn't make the cut - but you also didn't bother to notice that DL has its own employees doing BW work for DL's regional carriers in ATL in an operation that is larger than all but a couple mainline hubs in the worldemployees, including FAs, while other carriers add more and more RJs.

Great. They did that in CVG as well. Yet in MEM, the fiddle f**ked around with vendors for God knows how long. Why didn't they work to offset fixed costs there as well?

Quit trying to ride WN's coattails as if we are going to somehow forget what the labor movement has done for the legacy airline employees it represents.

If you're gonna make that point, then you cannot make the "threat of a union" argument, since DL employees have been "riding the coattails" of unionized workers for generations...

 

[Kev3188]

They care about what happens today.

They sure do. That's why A cards are such a hot commodity.

BTW, did DL have ONE hangar in DFW and TPA or are there TWO?

Spelling/grammar flames... Weak...

 

[Kev3188]

You still haven't been able to tell me what UNION represented airlines have their mainline employees handle their regional carriers in their hubs other than a relative handful of Ejet flights at CLT, far eclipsed by the hundreds of flights that DL's employees handle in multiple cities throughout DL's system, including LGA.

UAL in ORD, for one.

Speaking of LGA, who works the Shuttle flights? What work does Airserv do? Same question for JFK...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Great. They did that in CVG as well. Yet in MEM, the fiddle f**ked around with vendors for God knows how long. Why didn't they work to offset fixed costs there as well?

Again, DL couldn’t overcome the economics of the 50 seater – but they didn’t use that as an excuse not to remake their network to the benefit of their employees.
50 seaters gone from MEM, 717s added to ATL is a win for DL employees, no matter whether you can see it or not.

If you're gonna make that point, then you cannot make the "threat of a union" argument, since DL employees have been "riding the coattails" of unionized workers for generations...

The difference of course is that DL actually delivered. 700 is trying to argue how well WN’s employees have done despite the very real evidence that he and the rest of the labor movement has been rendered completely ineffective in providing any meaningful benefit to the legacy carrier employees in comparison to DL’s non-union employees.

They sure do. That's why A cards are such a hot commodity.

Again, you don’t seem to grasp the dynamic that has long existed – DL employees complain about what they want, including w/ threats of unions, the company responds, the employees get the benefits of a union if not better, and everyone is happy except for the unions who repeatedly fail.

A cards does not mean union success. There have zillions of them signed by DL employees with no change in DL’s union status since before those hoop skirts about which E is so fixated.

Spelling/grammar flames... Weak...

We've been thru the LGA Shuttle situation several times..DL doesn't ground handle EVERY regional carrier flight - and the Shuttle is a large RJ operation.

First time I've heard about UA and ORD. DO they work all flights? For how long has that been the case?

Once or twice is a mistake. The third time in a few posts isn’t going to get a pass.

 

[737823]

Who does the same function at IAD for UA Kev? Whenever WT mentions DL having in house work at ATL you always say DL is more than just ATL...

What about DEN? LAX? SFO?

Why no mainline UAL at MIA?

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, Josh, DL is JUST ATL. We just read that DL's brand is built around the notion that ALL DL passengers connect thru ATL.

Since that is true, then DL ground handles its regional carriers on all of their flights.

 

[blue collar]

DL employees have seen bigger increases in pay in the last 5 years because they came out of bankruptcy and had to pay to keep unions out.

And, labor didn't do anything to the legacy airlines, it was their business models that put them all in bankruptcy. Just like your beloved DL.

 

[737823]

Keep deflecting and changing the subject.

How is DL's hubs in MCO and DFW doing?

How is the hangar in TPA and DFW doing?

By the way, after the 3% raise, DL FA's will be making what their pay was back in July of 2004.

Dunno but in the past year I flew BOS-MCO-MEX, and it was a seamless experience. DL has other point to point flying in MCO...

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

yep, all of the legacies had failed business models and went into BK to fix them.

DL just happened to do its restructuring better than anyone else and in the process has generated profits high enough that they can give more pay raises at a faster rate that its peers - including WN - to the great consternation of the labor movement who is no closer to unionizing another DL workgroup than they were back in the age of E's hoop skirts.

 

[Kev3188]

Again, you don’t seem to grasp the dynamic that has long existed – DL employees complain about what they want, including w/ threats of unions, the company responds, the employees get the benefits of a union if not better, and everyone is happy except for the unions who repeatedly fail.

Exactly. Coattail riding.

We've been thru the LGA Shuttle situation several times..DL doesn't ground handle EVERY regional carrier flight - and the Shuttle is a large RJ operation.

If you don't want to hear about it, don't bring it up.

BTW, what all does AirServ do at LGA for DL? JFK?

First time I've heard about UA and ORD. DO they work all flights? For how long has that been the case?

For quite awhile now.