SWA Contract

[Duke787]

Is there anybody out there that would like to have the SWA contract. According to Owens we should not fear losing OH sense it is cheaper for AA to do their own.

 

[FWAAA]

As has been pointed out before, AA's current total maintenance expense package (very cheap line mechanics, fairly well-paid overhaul mechanics) is obviously advantageous for AA. If it wasn't, then AA would do whatever it takes to enable it outsource more overhaul work. Like all the other passenger airlines.

There's no evidence (from Bob Owens or anyone else) that AA's current overhaul expenses are cheaper than farming them out to overseas chop shops. Those current expenses might be cheaper than outsourcing - but there aren't any numbers. At least not public ones. And if AA were to offer the WN contract and wages to all 9,000+ AA maintenance employees, AA would have, by far, the highest maintenance expenses in the industry.

I'm skeptical of any assertion that AA's total maintenance expense package with the Southwest contract would be cheaper than the typical model, which is insourced line maintenance plus outsourced heavy airframe and powerplant overhaul. If insourced overhaul at WN's payrates was cheaper, then I gotta think that WN would have long ago hired more mechanics and would be doing their own heavy C checks. Same thing with every other airline that outsources its heavy overhaul yet pays its line mechanics more than AA pays all its mechanics.

Cue Bob Owens with his "there aren't enough mechanics in the USA for WN to overhaul its own planes and there aren't enough new A&Ps being minted to ever do so" thesis. In response to that, I'm certain that if WN were to advertise that it wanted to hire a few hundred A&Ps each year, it would attract applications. Trade school enrollment is not static - if a high-paying employer wants to hire enough people at high enough pay, kids will eventually enroll in school to acquire those skills. Not the next day, but certainly within a few years.

 

[TWU informer]

Maybe we are about to find out the truth about A&P schools and available AMT's.

There is currently more than one Tulsa Supervisor visiting A&P schools in Dallas, Tulsa, Chicago to recruit newly graduated AMT's to come to AA for work. We will see how this pans out for both sides soon.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2011/03/09/foreman.bua.flight.school.cnn?hpt=T2

Maybe someone should tell CNN that half the A&P schools in the country have closed maybe thats why Spartans numbers are up. It must be rocket science...

Someone should also tell these kids how much this indusrty sucks. Better yet just give them the last 20 years of concessions given to us by the TWU.

My bet is if they new the real truth most would think twice. Thoses that remain well i would call them IGNANT 🙂

 

[Duke787]

This isn't a bash OH thread, this is a would you accept a SWA contract with their pay and their work rules thread. I for one would.

 

[Observer]

This isn't a bash OH thread, this is a would you except a SWA contract with their pay and their work rules thread. I for one would.

over the years the Company has said they would give us the SWA contract if the union would agree to it, and lately it was ditto for the CAL contract...............just accept it. One then needs to look at that seriously and understand what that would bring to the fore. Owens is wrong on the farm out of overhaul. All the other carriers that have farmed out overhaul, slashed staff and facilities. Look at the UAL situation in SFO, a very large facility, that now has under utilization and plenty of parking in the employee lot. Then there is the INDY facility that United built that is now an overhaul facility for some of the legacy carriers, and looking for more. I think Danny Martinez runs it. So be careful what you ask for.

 

[FWAAA]

Then there is the INDY facility that United built that is now an overhaul facility for some of the legacy carriers, and looking for more. I think Danny Martinez runs it. So be careful what you ask for.

Yep. AAR in Indy employs about 1,000 at IND with 10 bays designed for 737s and 757s; largest AAR customer at IND is Southwest. UA once employed 3,000 at IND.

http://www.aarcorp.com/comm/comm_1_1.htm

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ And let's not forget MCIE!!! AA is still is on the hook, for two empty 747 hangers, and shops, to the tune of $1 Mil.@ year for the next 16 or so years. Although they did get a two year reprieve, on a sub lease to a wind turbine Company.------- The Base as a whole, at one point in time, employed close to six thousand!

 

[Duke787]

over the years the Company has said they would give us the SWA contract if the union would agree to it, and lately it was ditto for the CAL contract...............just accept it. One then needs to look at that seriously and understand what that would bring to the fore. Owens is wrong on the farm out of overhaul. All the other carriers that have farmed out overhaul, slashed staff and facilities. Look at the UAL situation in SFO, a very large facility, that now has under utilization and plenty of parking in the employee lot. Then there is the INDY facility that United built that is now an overhaul facility for some of the legacy carriers, and looking for more. I think Danny Martinez runs it. So be careful what you ask for.

Are you trying to imply that the TWU and AA have saved thousands of overhaul AMT jobs? And by saying that are you saying that Bob Owens is wrong about OH is cheaper for AA to do in house.

Regardless of that I would like to have the SWA contract, according to the OH guys that post on this forum, they should be able to stand on their own two feet, meaning they can justify their pay and not have to worry about a more company friendly scope clause.

At the very least I would like to have separate contracts between line and OH.

 

[wcs]

There's no evidence (from Bob Owens or anyone else) that AA's current overhaul expenses are cheaper than farming them out to overseas chop shops. Those current expenses might be cheaper than outsourcing - but there aren't any numbers. At least not public ones.

You are correct. There are no numbers that show AA Overhaul expenses are less than anyone elses. But that is not the reason AA keeps Overhaul
in-house. It's because it's a better value to AA. The infrastructure is already in place. AA can better maintain quality control and scheduling. But the one number that is available is the fact that AA in-house overhaul lessens the out-of-service time of the aircraft. Those aircraft spend less down time and more time producing revenue. In the end In-house Overhaul is a wise investment that produces overall savings and improves revenue. But you won't be able to find that in a 10-k

 

[eolesen]

Sounds great, wcs, but that's all spin from both the company and the union. Of course AA is going to tout in-house. They have no alternative.

Since there isn't sufficient OH capability available to handle AA's fleet per Bob, then call the company's bluff already. Agree to lifting the outsourcing caps. If the quality really is better and cost competitive, then you have nothing to fear, right?

 

[AAmt TCC]

From The Oklahoma Daily
Airlines Agree to Offer Interviews to Graduates
An agreement with two airlines will assist aviation graduate students in finding jobs by providing guaranteed interviews. The University of Oklahoma's Department of Aviation has completed direct-hire agreements with American Eagle and Pinnacle airlines. The agreement contracts guarantee interviews for the students with the airlines, and the airlines can directly hire graduates without interviews. Pinnacle's agreement was completed Feb. 18 and American Eagle's agreement on Feb. 28. The university or the airlines may terminate the direct-hiring arrangement at any time, according to the agreements.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Wopey!!! So the Airlines get a lot of free advertising in exchange for an interview, for a min. wage job, that they can walk way from any time! 😉

 

[wcs]

Agree to lifting the outsourcing caps. If the quality really is better and cost competitive, then you have nothing to fear, right?

How about this alternative? Don't pay to outsource management decisions. Let management decisions be made in-house instead outsourcing to BCG and SH&E. If the quality really is better, then you have nothing to fear, right? If the quality isn't better use the PUP payments to pay for outsourced decisions since it's cost competitive.

 

[Vortilon]

From The Oklahoma Daily
Airlines Agree to Offer Interviews to Graduates
An agreement with two airlines will assist aviation graduate students in finding jobs by providing guaranteed interviews. The University of Oklahoma's Department of Aviation has completed direct-hire agreements with American Eagle and Pinnacle airlines. The agreement contracts guarantee interviews for the students with the airlines, and the airlines can directly hire graduates without interviews. Pinnacle's agreement was completed Feb. 18 and American Eagle's agreement on Feb. 28. The university or the airlines may terminate the direct-hiring arrangement at any time, according to the agreements.

American Eagle and Pinnacle, now there is a pair to draw to......not! Good god, why not throw in Burger King and McDonalds. <_<