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Synthetic Long Lines

skullcap

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Just inquiring those who of you who have any insight on the use of synthetic lines on water buckets. Having just done some research, the Amsteel Blue(new name for spectra) lines have a very low tolerance for heat. Has anyone come across the problem of losing buckets and/or what measures do to you take to prevent this, ie, use cable at lower end or some type of sheathing. Am worried that if lowering bucket into crew doing IA and get too close to heat or tree blows up beside line that could lose the bucket. Have lots of experience with this myself with both steel and synthetic but have never had any problems, not sure what to do now.

sc
 
1) remove synthetic line

2) install bucket directly to belly

3) end of problem

😀 :blink: :up:
 
Now what kind of a clown would be bucketing without a longline.

Sorry, couldn't resist there vr. 😱
 
Some one that wants to actually get the fire going instead of just lookin pretty 😛
 
High Modulus Polyethylene (HMPE) ropes, from which Amsteel Blue and others are made, begin to suffer progressive strength loss at 65 degrees C.

I personally believe they should not be used on fires, or anywhere other than a pristine environment with experienced and trained ground crews. They should also be retired afer 5 years, regardless of use.
 
Yeah, CTD, am beginning to think the same. Tested a piece by pulling tight in a vice and literally ran a heat gun by it and it pulled in two with our bare hands(mind you a heat gun is a lot hotter than what is listed as safe)!!! Isn't it strange though that there have not been more failures. I think that we will install a lightweight stainless cable on the lower portion(40-60') to ensure that the heat is away from the rope.

Thanks for the input.

sc
 
This is just silly talk... Spectra lines are the best. How likely are you to be lowering a bucket down to a mop up crew through crowning tops?? I say that if you are in a position to be exposing your line to enough heat to damage it, then your arse would be on fire anyway. If you are in the habit of dragging your bucket and line through the foliage of a raging forest fire, then good luck with that... :up: :shock:
 
Well lets just say that you are supporting a crew or a few cats and they need water put specifically on a spot, not dropped from the tree tops. This then puts the downwash into the trees nearby. If you have not seen your downwash kicking up some flames then look around. And my worry is that maybe partway up a tree your downwash kicks up a bit of flame, 65'C is not that hot. All of this I have done and will in the future as well. It is not silly, just being proactive. I will be install the steel cable on lower end, you can stay bucketing from 50 above the trees and I'll work with the crews, cio.

Frenchwrench, generally the line doesn't get in the water and if you think it does in flight, the water spray goes back not up. Am not some child here.
 
Now that I have a few Golden Throat Charmers(to quote Duke Elegant) I'm not so grumpy, my apologies for doing my grizzly bear immitation.

Guess I don't like being called silly on a Monday morning, you'd think I would be used to it by now though.


🙄
 
😀
I think most of us get on this site after a few golden throat charmers (barley sandwiches).

As for the synthetic longlines, I used them a lot on the north coast of BC. Our concern was due to conductivity as we were operating along a parallel live circuit that was cranking out 267KV. Over sixty miles, the dead transmission line can build up a lot of induction.

If these synthetic longlines get dirty or wet, they will conduct electricity. They are great to longline with though. It almost takes a huge effort to get the load swinging.

Also, ultraviolet light degrades the lines, so if you are not using it, roll it up and put it out of the sun.

RH
 
I like the synthetic lines because of their flight characteristics as well (especially with light loads the line really does whip less). I may be wrong but I think the purple brand of line has better U.V. protection than the blue stuff. And to be honest Skullcap, I've been using synthetic lines on seismic jobs for years and only occasionally on fires. Nobody ever told me how sensitive the crap is to heat, so you have actually taught me a valuable little tidbit of info by bringing up the subject... Thanks. 😀
 
Thanks for the info rotorhead, the spectra lines however do not degrade with uv as kevlar does, the color will infact bleed out of it but the strength remains. They use spectra on tugs and and fishing boats, have left one of these lines outside lying in the sun for a year and when retested still had the same strength(breaking). I know a company that used kevlar 12 years ago and lost a helidrill and when the dust settled it was caused by the kevlar breaking down. I wouldn't use kevlar to lift anything, maybe good for bulletproof vest where is covered but thats it.

Dirt is definetly bad as not only does it have the conductivity problem but it gets in the fibres of the rope which act to break the rope down. It should be inspected for white powder like substance as sign of breaking down. To my knowledge fuel, water and such do not bother it as well. Spectra(amsteel blue) is one excellent product but heat and dirt are its nemisis. So keep it covered, don't use tiewraps to attach the electric cord to it and be extremely careful around heat. Some pilots land with the longline behind them, this practice is extremely hazardous for two reasons, one it is light and can be blown up into the t/r, the other especially around the 500 is the heat from the exhaust can cause breakdown of the line.

As mentioned before it seems strange that the heat hasn't bothered these lines one fires more than it has. Perhaps the sheathing acts to insulate the line.
 
Regarding longlines, it's simple where there is flame there is a steel line.
Do it out of courtesy for the men on the ground. 😉
 

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