Teamster Representation Questions

[Kev3188]

No language for limiting. However, there are not many "extra" seats available in any one conference room that they nego in.

Good info. Thanks.

With that in mind, I'd say the following are all possible:

1. Get a bigger room.
2. Make the existing room(s) standing room only if need be
3. If the room holds, say, 15 observers, then 15 come in for the first portion, another 15 come on after the break, the next batch after lunch, and so on...

See where I'm going with this? It's a sort of "know the rules so you can bend them properly" kind of mindset.

I talk to a lot of people that are either new to labor, or have never really been actively involved. One of the most refreshing things in those discussions is that people don't know what they "can't" do. (I hope that makes sense?)

Or look at it like this: Say 100 people showed up at the next TWU talks to watch. Will the reps turn them away? Will the company? if the reps do, it's suicide for them. If the company does, it becomes a rallying cry for the membership. Both sides know this. Either way, the membership takes back some control- something I think most union members have gotten away from (in and outside of aviation)...

IMO, it's all about transparency, engagement, and direct action. AMFA does this well, but could do better. Others are still at the starting gate, or too busy empire building...

 

[swamt]

Good info. Thanks.

With that in mind, I'd say the following are all possible:

1. Get a bigger room.
2. Make the existing room(s) standing room only if need be
3. If the room holds, say, 15 observers, then 15 come in for the first portion, another 15 come on after the break, the next batch after lunch, and so on...

See where I'm going with this? It's a sort of "know the rules so you can bend them properly" kind of mindset.

I talk to a lot of people that are either new to labor, or have never really been actively involved. One of the most refreshing things in those discussions is that people don't know what they "can't" do. (I hope that makes sense?)

Or look at it like this: Say 100 people showed up at the next TWU talks to watch. Will the reps turn them away? Will the company? if the reps do, it's suicide for them. If the company does, it becomes a rallying cry for the membership. Both sides know this. Either way, the membership takes back some control- something I think most union members have gotten away from (in and outside of aviation)...

IMO, it's all about transparency, engagement, and direct action. AMFA does this well, but could do better. Others are still at the starting gate, or too busy empire building...

Knock yourself out brother. Get it started and have numerous members show to attend and see what happens. Let's just see what the outcome would be. I will be willing to bet that the TWU will refuse to allow, the company probably don't give a crap either way. Great idea, now follow thru with it. Good luck and please post the results, LOL...

 

[Kev3188]

I'm willing to bet that the TWU and company both would be completely off balance if a large group showed up and demanded to participate. It's not how they're used to operating.

As for me, I should be so lucky! My work group needs to (re) secure representation first. Then we can work on building engagement through direct action...

One step at a time...

 

[xUT]

I'm willing to bet that the TWU and company both would be completely off balance if a large group showed up and demanded to participate. It's not how they're used to operating.

As for me, I should be so lucky! My work group needs to (re) secure representation first. Then we can work on building engagement through direct action...

One step at a time...

You will have to deal with apathy as well.
When we had negotiations at UA in SFO, we only had 4-6 people attend as observers. Since this was a work day, no one would take a day of vacation or a day with no pay.
At the time, we had over 5000 M&R at SFO.
The negotiating site was not more than a 5 minute drive or 20 minute bus ride from the MOC and much less from the terminal.
No one from midnights or swing shift showed up to participate.
I spent a mix of vacation and no-pay days to be there.

I don't know how SWA handles observers.

If you think you can get 100 people to show up, then I'll give $1 per head to your favorite charity.

JMHO,
B) xUT

 

[swamt]

You will have to deal with apathy as well.
When we had negotiations at UA in SFO, we only had 4-6 people attend as observers. Since this was a work day, no one would take a day of vacation or a day with no pay.
At the time, we had over 5000 M&R at SFO.
The negotiating site was not more than a 5 minute drive or 20 minute bus ride from the MOC and much less from the terminal.
No one from midnights or swing shift showed up to participate.
I spent a mix of vacation and no-pay days to be there.

I don't know how SWA handles observers.

If you think you can get 100 people to show up, then I'll give $1 per head to your favorite charity.

JMHO,
B) xUT

It sounds as if they are handled the same. Your right about the apathy. Your also right about the taking time off without pay or burning a V or F/H to attend, but in any case any observers are on their own time and dime if they want to attend.
On a side note: It doesn't matter how many show up, or how many don't show up. With just one member from each local is more than enough to get the information out there. Once again this stops all the rumor mills and lies from circulating as well as all the "behind close door" deals that the teamsters always pulled while they were here. A much, much better system with AMFA.

 

[enough already]

Teamsters, American Airlines mechanics plan announcement


http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/Teamsters_American_Airlines_mechanics_plan_announcement/20130527_585_0_TeItra276074

 

[swamt]

Teamsters, American Airlines mechanics plan announcement


http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/Teamsters_American_Airlines_mechanics_plan_announcement/20130527_585_0_TeItra276074

Let's see if they file for one, and for two, if they do let's see if they even have enough, and number three; someone better challenge the teamsters numbers due to their fraudulent forged card collections at AA. Both AMFA and the TWU need to submit a challenge for this...

 

[Kev3188]

You will have to deal with apathy as well.

Absolutely.

The thing with observers and other direct action is that it then becomes a circle that feeds off itself. People get energized when they feel like they're involved. As that increases, so does participation, and so on.

And while I get that having people come in from around the system is a lot larger "ask" of a membership as opposed to, say, talks at a single factory/hospital/whatever, the principle still stays the same...

On a side note: It doesn't matter how many show up, or how many don't show up. With just one member from each local is more than enough to get the information out there.

I respectfully disagree. Your points about disemminating (sp?) information are accurate, but IMO, having a huge turnout sends a clear message to both sides of the table.

 

[swamt]

Below is a quote from a reporter following the teamsters filing at AA. You really gotta ask yourself, "why is the teamsters loosing the majority of it's members?" Here's the quote below:

"In 2012, the Teamsters lost more members than any other union in the United States" and "has resorted to raiding established unions at American Airlines and US Airways,"

 

[gtd]

The IBT and Outsourcing at UAL

[background=transparent]
During bankruptcy at UAL under AMFA there was language added to the contract to audit the company every year to make sure the company would not exceed the 20% outsourcing agreement. Fast forward to 2008 when the IBT became our union. The IBT lost the 20% outsourcing grievance but supposedly continued the audit process. At least that’s what they said. Fast forward again to the present. Under our new contract there would be an outsourcing committee organized with “appointed” committeemen that would meet with the company to review outsourcing.[/background][background=transparent]
I asked my local IBT officers about who was on the committee and have they met with the company. I asked for any updates on their meetings. I also asked about our 20% outsourcing audit that was supposedly in progress. I also asked about our B757′s being outsourced to AAR in Indianapolis and our B737′s to Mexico. The response?[/background][background=transparent]
The response by those IBT Airline Division officers were, we were not aware of the outsourcing of those aircraft and no response about who is on the “committee” and when or if they have met with the company. Also, they stated that after five years of IBT representation the 20% outsourcing audits are null and void and the audit company the IBT hired will now have to start over.[/background][background=transparent]
So long story short, the IBT has no idea how much work is outsourced and appears not to care. In fact they are ignoring the membership’s request for information on this issue.[/background][background=transparent]
Is this a union you want to lead you through bankruptcy and to fight against outsourcing? I would think not. Don’t make the same mistake we at UAL have made. Go Craft Union.[/background][background=transparent]
Go AMFA![/background][background=transparent]
GT Davis, Denver Mechanic, Denmm[/background]

 

[swamt]

The IBT and Outsourcing at UAL


[background=transparent]During bankruptcy at UAL under AMFA there was language added to the contract to audit the company every year to make sure the company would not exceed the 20% outsourcing agreement. Fast forward to 2008 when the IBT became our union. The IBT lost the 20% outsourcing grievance but supposedly continued the audit process. At least that’s what they said. Fast forward again to the present. Under our new contract there would be an outsourcing committee organized with “appointed” committeemen that would meet with the company to review outsourcing.[/background]
[background=transparent]I asked my local IBT officers about who was on the committee and have they met with the company. I asked for any updates on their meetings. I also asked about our 20% outsourcing audit that was supposedly in progress. I also asked about our B757′s being outsourced to AAR in Indianapolis and our B737′s to Mexico. The response?[/background]
[background=transparent]The response by those IBT Airline Division officers were, we were not aware of the outsourcing of those aircraft and no response about who is on the “committee” and when or if they have met with the company. Also, they stated that after five years of IBT representation the 20% outsourcing audits are null and void and the audit company the IBT hired will now have to start over.[/background]
[background=transparent]So long story short, the IBT has no idea how much work is outsourced and appears not to care. In fact they are ignoring the membership’s request for information on this issue.[/background]
[background=transparent]Is this a union you want to lead you through bankruptcy and to fight against outsourcing? I would think not. Don’t make the same mistake we at UAL have made. Go Craft Union.[/background]
[background=transparent]Go AMFA![/background]
[background=transparent]GT Davis, Denver Mechanic, Denmm[/background]

I told you all that AMFA nego better contract language for outsourcing AFTER the IAM agreed to send everything away. It wasn't AMFA who gave away the farm it was the IAM. AMFA, in fact nego better protections as well as head count and procedures to "police" the outrageous outsourcing that the IAM agreed with the company to allow. Wasn't AMFA or the teamsters, it was the IAM at the time they were the representational union at the time the contract was agreed to, period...

 

[Anomaly]

I told you all that AMFA nego better contract language for outsourcing AFTER the IAM agreed to send everything away. It wasn't AMFA who gave away the farm it was the IAM. AMFA, in fact nego better protections as well as head count and procedures to "police" the outrageous outsourcing that the IAM agreed with the company to allow. Wasn't AMFA or the teamsters, it was the IAM at the time they were the representational union at the time the contract was agreed to, period...

It was amfa that negotiated the language that allowed maintenance to foreign vendors like China.

It was amfa that removed the letter of agreement that gave us better choices in the event of a furlough.

It was amfa that gave up all the utility classifications (although the IAM had a hand in this as well).

It was amfa that did not argue the correct value of the UA mileage plus program and allowed our pensions to be spun off to the PBGC.

It was amfa that was decertified in less than 5 years because of their failures representing UA mechanics and related.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Anomaly,

Please address what GT has posted since you seem to have all the inside info on all things IBT at UAL.

Glenn

 

[xUT]

Anomaly,

Please address what GT has posted since you seem to have all the inside info on all things IBT at UAL.

Glenn

He won't do that.
Spin Spin Spin...
Razzle Dazzle, wash spin and repeat.

 

[xUT]

It was amfa that negotiated the language that allowed maintenance to foreign vendors like China.

IIRC, Traded overseas vendors for Jetshop Jobs. Membership voted for it (YOU TOO!).

It was amfa that removed the letter of agreement that gave us better choices in the event of a furlough.

ACAC and ALR's voted to rescind a LOA without membership vote/input. Cost most of them their positions through a process called "Recall", that the ibt doesn't have.

BTW, how many LOA's has the mighty ibt implemented without membership knowledge or input?

It was amfa that gave up all the utility classifications (although the IAM had a hand in this as well).

It was a BK negotiations, UA wanted them gone regardless of AMFA/IAM.

It was amfa that did not argue the correct value of the UA mileage plus program and allowed our pensions to be spun off to the PBGC.

WOW, you really pulled that out of your A$$.
Mileage plus program? BBBBBBAAAAAHHHHHH!!!! LOL

PBGC was going to get our pensions (like everyone else) spin it or not.

You ibt A$$clowns dropped the outsourcing arbitration.
DOH!

It was amfa that was decertified in less than 5 years because of their failures representing UA mechanics and related.

The M&R I worked with believed the ibt lies and were impressed with the promise of a pension and lil jimmy in his shiny decked out truck. Yea, great thinkers they were. Now they just don't give a ####.

Got it, you don't like AMFA and you never did.

You say you were once an AMFA supporter, but I call Bull####!

But you take great license in your historical memory of the facts.

B) xUT