- Dec 17, 2009
- 237
- 123
In attendance for the IBT: Clacy Griswald- Lead negotiator , Ed Gleason-Legal,
Captain Bourne- Airline Division Leader, Chris Moore- TMAC, Rich Petrovsky- Local 986
B/A and a few other insignificant talking heads that did not speak.
Audience: Approximately 200 mechanics from across SFO.
Date &Time: Thursday July 28, 2011@ 5 am - 6 am meeting
Points of topic:
• Clacy spoke about the status of the merger; The Single Operating Certificate (SOC),
Customer Day One & estimated that UAL/CAL will have a single flight schedule by
March 2012.
• As previously announced Jim McKenzie was named our NMB Mediator who has a
past history working in Unions, Clacy stated that the IBT knows him and feel he will be
a fair Mediator.
• Clacy addressed the status of our Negotiations by stating the T/A was voted down and
they are moving forward with the process, both he and Capt. Bourne stated that they
have heard from the Membership “Loud & Clear” what the major issues of contention
were notably the Retro issue & the Medical plan. He stated that they IBT will be
sending out a “National Survey” to query the membership over OUR issues,now?
• Captain Bourne addressed the status of our mediation status. There has been no
decision by the NMB on the Teamsters request to continue negotiating with the UAL
mechanics only, prior to an amalgamated agreement, but he expected them to rule in
our favor in the near future.
• Clacy stated that the IBTʼs position on the Seniority integration will be by date of hire
(DOH), and that the UAL “court decree” will most likely remain in the eventual
amalgamated CBA. What was NOT addressed or spoke to was the “Fence
agreements” within the integration. Furloughed UAL mechanics may certainly be
“Fenced” behind recently hired CAL mechanics. Several other issues are also involved
here, the Devil is in the details. And that there is a “Integration committee” formed at
CAL and will be one at UAL once the members are “Appointed”.
• Clacy spoke to the the medical issue, but then went on to say they are looking into
other Union sponsored medical plans. Although he stated several time “They heard us
loud and clear” over our dissatisfaction with the failed T/A & the medical plan offered
us, they obviously do NOT understand, that we are not too interested in a Union
medical plan.
• Chris Moore, chairman of the Airline Division Mechanic TMAC spoke about the
1. FAA Reauthorization Bill, currently in limbo due to the National budget debate in DC.
2. A National Survey in conjunction with the FAA over A&P “Duty Limitations"
• The IBT is just now establishing a “ FAA Fine Protection Program” using an outside
Law firm. This is a seldom used benefit, but important.
• When asked generally WHAT leverage the IBT has in these Negotiations, basically
Clacy stated that our main (and only one mentioned) leverage was our ability to
refrain from accomplishing Dual Maintenance on each others fleets, between UAL &
CAL. Although they were questioned over ONE of several recent events that has been
transpiring between both Airlines. Their response was not too comforting, as we are
indeed doing each others maintenance i.e. Denver hail damage & 757ʼs in MCO. Rich
Petrovsky further questioned the attendees “Would we prefer this work be farmed out
to TIMCO instead”? So one must assume that the company will always use this “Farm
out” card, when confronted with the Teamsters noncompliance to do dual maintenance
in the future.
Q&A session (lasted less then 25 minutes and grew more confrontational until Clacy
ended the meeting a 6 am). 7 pertinent question were asked.
1. Why doesnʼt the Teamsters employ a “Work to Rule” or “Safety First” campaign?
Clacy correctly stated the Union can not indorse or promote such acts legally. That
this must come from with in. What was not discussed is the repercussions certain
members will face when targeted by the company à la “The Summer of Hell 2000-
Mechanic 170 hit list” and any protections by the Teamsters. He went on to say that in
certain situations it has been successful for specific short durations, he then showed
concern that ALPA was sued at Delta years ago.
2. Why hasnʼt there been any more 20% farm out audits? Clacy stated that their
analyst group (Quakenbush- no kidding) is having problems getting the information
from the company. Clacy said that the Teamsters would have to use Hoffa Junior and
his clout to try to expedite this issue. Even though we are covered by the archaic
RLA, it would be advisable to use Section 8.a.5 of the NLRA & the 1967 NRLB
vs.Acme Industrial Company, in which the Supreme Court ruled in part that a
company MUST furnish the Union with information “ to monitor compliance with the
contract”. But since the 20% arbitration language was to be conceded in the
Teamsters recent failed UAL T/A, one may assume the Teamsters want nothing to do
with spending resources on this anymore.
3. Why werenʼt we provided with the stricken language in our voting material when it
was mailed home? Capt. Bourne stated that, if they did the document would have
been 500-600 pages long. The rebuttal question was “Why where there so MANY
changes made” in short the reply was; that the current CBA needed to be practically
rewritten per the IBT & negotiators opinion.
4. One member asked “Why no retro”? Clacy stated simply “It must be negotiated, there
is no LAW requiring retroactive back pay”. Even though for over 50 years under the
IAM it was always in our T/Aʼs, as it is the ONLY device that holds the companyʼs financial feet to the fire, as to NOT to drag out negotiations. Even “talking” of forgoing
this was a contractual taboo!
5. One member stated “Your communications were very poor describing the T/A versus
your Communications departments work during the representational campaign
against AMFA. Clacy agreed saying “They should have done a better job”.
6. One member emotionally stated that he has been here for 36 years and recanted all
of our past beatings by the company and that after all the resources and time & effort
the Teamsters went through getting in here, that “He was very disappointed in the
Teamsters” which elicited a round of applause and asked “Why arenʼt you all fighting
for us” Clacy (AKA Good Cop) referred this to Rich Petrovsky (AKA Bad Cop). Rich
Petrovsky went into a prolonged speech in a “How dare you talk back to us” raised
tone of voice, in which he stated the following: “That is was not the IBT that brought
you the ESOP, gave away HMV work to overseas OSV and other concessions the
IAM & AMFA were forced to give up while in Bankruptcy” .That the Teamsters got our
double time back, full sick pay, previously lost Holidays & a few other previous
bankruptcy concessions. He conclude that he challenges any one to debate him over
the assertion the Teamsters are not fighting for us. He further stated that it was the
former Officers of AMFA that were dividing the membership and stated that it was this
and the past poor representation & contract language of both the IAM & AMFA that
were the reason that this T/A was not satisfactory to the membership and not the
fighting Teamsters fault.
7. It was later pointed out that, during the representational election between the
Teamsters & AMFA that the Teamsters own top dog “James Hoffa Junior” publicly
wrote “And when we conclude a contract for United Mechanics, which will certainly
include retroactive payments...” Along with Clacyʼs promise that we would be
negotiating “The BEST of both CAL & UALʼs current CBAʼs” and it was pointed out
that the CAL medical plan was clearly NOT the better of the two. Also Rich Petrovsky
was reminded that in regards to his refuted claims of past Unions issues, that the
Teamsters at UAL have been in POWER for some time now, the company is
profitable, growing and no longer in Bankruptcy, stop the excuses! The meeting
abruptly was ended as Clacy stated “Their TIME was up” as this author stated “Now
that is an understatement”.
SFOMM Ramp 12 Mechanic in attendance
Captain Bourne- Airline Division Leader, Chris Moore- TMAC, Rich Petrovsky- Local 986
B/A and a few other insignificant talking heads that did not speak.
Audience: Approximately 200 mechanics from across SFO.
Date &Time: Thursday July 28, 2011@ 5 am - 6 am meeting
Points of topic:
• Clacy spoke about the status of the merger; The Single Operating Certificate (SOC),
Customer Day One & estimated that UAL/CAL will have a single flight schedule by
March 2012.
• As previously announced Jim McKenzie was named our NMB Mediator who has a
past history working in Unions, Clacy stated that the IBT knows him and feel he will be
a fair Mediator.
• Clacy addressed the status of our Negotiations by stating the T/A was voted down and
they are moving forward with the process, both he and Capt. Bourne stated that they
have heard from the Membership “Loud & Clear” what the major issues of contention
were notably the Retro issue & the Medical plan. He stated that they IBT will be
sending out a “National Survey” to query the membership over OUR issues,now?
• Captain Bourne addressed the status of our mediation status. There has been no
decision by the NMB on the Teamsters request to continue negotiating with the UAL
mechanics only, prior to an amalgamated agreement, but he expected them to rule in
our favor in the near future.
• Clacy stated that the IBTʼs position on the Seniority integration will be by date of hire
(DOH), and that the UAL “court decree” will most likely remain in the eventual
amalgamated CBA. What was NOT addressed or spoke to was the “Fence
agreements” within the integration. Furloughed UAL mechanics may certainly be
“Fenced” behind recently hired CAL mechanics. Several other issues are also involved
here, the Devil is in the details. And that there is a “Integration committee” formed at
CAL and will be one at UAL once the members are “Appointed”.
• Clacy spoke to the the medical issue, but then went on to say they are looking into
other Union sponsored medical plans. Although he stated several time “They heard us
loud and clear” over our dissatisfaction with the failed T/A & the medical plan offered
us, they obviously do NOT understand, that we are not too interested in a Union
medical plan.
• Chris Moore, chairman of the Airline Division Mechanic TMAC spoke about the
1. FAA Reauthorization Bill, currently in limbo due to the National budget debate in DC.
2. A National Survey in conjunction with the FAA over A&P “Duty Limitations"
• The IBT is just now establishing a “ FAA Fine Protection Program” using an outside
Law firm. This is a seldom used benefit, but important.
• When asked generally WHAT leverage the IBT has in these Negotiations, basically
Clacy stated that our main (and only one mentioned) leverage was our ability to
refrain from accomplishing Dual Maintenance on each others fleets, between UAL &
CAL. Although they were questioned over ONE of several recent events that has been
transpiring between both Airlines. Their response was not too comforting, as we are
indeed doing each others maintenance i.e. Denver hail damage & 757ʼs in MCO. Rich
Petrovsky further questioned the attendees “Would we prefer this work be farmed out
to TIMCO instead”? So one must assume that the company will always use this “Farm
out” card, when confronted with the Teamsters noncompliance to do dual maintenance
in the future.
Q&A session (lasted less then 25 minutes and grew more confrontational until Clacy
ended the meeting a 6 am). 7 pertinent question were asked.
1. Why doesnʼt the Teamsters employ a “Work to Rule” or “Safety First” campaign?
Clacy correctly stated the Union can not indorse or promote such acts legally. That
this must come from with in. What was not discussed is the repercussions certain
members will face when targeted by the company à la “The Summer of Hell 2000-
Mechanic 170 hit list” and any protections by the Teamsters. He went on to say that in
certain situations it has been successful for specific short durations, he then showed
concern that ALPA was sued at Delta years ago.
2. Why hasnʼt there been any more 20% farm out audits? Clacy stated that their
analyst group (Quakenbush- no kidding) is having problems getting the information
from the company. Clacy said that the Teamsters would have to use Hoffa Junior and
his clout to try to expedite this issue. Even though we are covered by the archaic
RLA, it would be advisable to use Section 8.a.5 of the NLRA & the 1967 NRLB
vs.Acme Industrial Company, in which the Supreme Court ruled in part that a
company MUST furnish the Union with information “ to monitor compliance with the
contract”. But since the 20% arbitration language was to be conceded in the
Teamsters recent failed UAL T/A, one may assume the Teamsters want nothing to do
with spending resources on this anymore.
3. Why werenʼt we provided with the stricken language in our voting material when it
was mailed home? Capt. Bourne stated that, if they did the document would have
been 500-600 pages long. The rebuttal question was “Why where there so MANY
changes made” in short the reply was; that the current CBA needed to be practically
rewritten per the IBT & negotiators opinion.
4. One member asked “Why no retro”? Clacy stated simply “It must be negotiated, there
is no LAW requiring retroactive back pay”. Even though for over 50 years under the
IAM it was always in our T/Aʼs, as it is the ONLY device that holds the companyʼs financial feet to the fire, as to NOT to drag out negotiations. Even “talking” of forgoing
this was a contractual taboo!
5. One member stated “Your communications were very poor describing the T/A versus
your Communications departments work during the representational campaign
against AMFA. Clacy agreed saying “They should have done a better job”.
6. One member emotionally stated that he has been here for 36 years and recanted all
of our past beatings by the company and that after all the resources and time & effort
the Teamsters went through getting in here, that “He was very disappointed in the
Teamsters” which elicited a round of applause and asked “Why arenʼt you all fighting
for us” Clacy (AKA Good Cop) referred this to Rich Petrovsky (AKA Bad Cop). Rich
Petrovsky went into a prolonged speech in a “How dare you talk back to us” raised
tone of voice, in which he stated the following: “That is was not the IBT that brought
you the ESOP, gave away HMV work to overseas OSV and other concessions the
IAM & AMFA were forced to give up while in Bankruptcy” .That the Teamsters got our
double time back, full sick pay, previously lost Holidays & a few other previous
bankruptcy concessions. He conclude that he challenges any one to debate him over
the assertion the Teamsters are not fighting for us. He further stated that it was the
former Officers of AMFA that were dividing the membership and stated that it was this
and the past poor representation & contract language of both the IAM & AMFA that
were the reason that this T/A was not satisfactory to the membership and not the
fighting Teamsters fault.
7. It was later pointed out that, during the representational election between the
Teamsters & AMFA that the Teamsters own top dog “James Hoffa Junior” publicly
wrote “And when we conclude a contract for United Mechanics, which will certainly
include retroactive payments...” Along with Clacyʼs promise that we would be
negotiating “The BEST of both CAL & UALʼs current CBAʼs” and it was pointed out
that the CAL medical plan was clearly NOT the better of the two. Also Rich Petrovsky
was reminded that in regards to his refuted claims of past Unions issues, that the
Teamsters at UAL have been in POWER for some time now, the company is
profitable, growing and no longer in Bankruptcy, stop the excuses! The meeting
abruptly was ended as Clacy stated “Their TIME was up” as this author stated “Now
that is an understatement”.
SFOMM Ramp 12 Mechanic in attendance
