terms of DL-DALPA tentative agreement released.

[topDawg]

 
 
 
I was going to ask/comment about this:  any chance that DL would consider Bombardier's CSeries? 
All 3 of you seem to believe or be in agreement that it will be E190s.  But I wonder if Bombardier could offer DL a sweet deal on the CSeries whether DL would take up the offer?  Or is it just better to stick with the Embraer product?

I am going to say no. First it seems like DL wants these airplanes here yesterday. They idea is they want the 717 to wrap up this year and then start taking these ASPA after. (edit just noticed it says it will be added by second half of 16. IMO that makes the C-series even more unlikely.) 
but when you look at the TA
1) they talk about the 100 seat jet
2) they put the E90 rate on the same level as E95 and give it a raise 
3) no CSeries rate added. 
 
IMO its a done deal waiting on the pilots to do the likely thing and vote yes for this turd. 

 

[topDawg]

So the numbers on the TATL JV i am hearing is 50% of the EASKs = 65% pilot block hours for Delta pilots. 
 
So this TA allows for 15% of the TATL network to be outsourced EVEN MORE than it has been. 
 
I have been telling yall, Anderson is trying to turn this ship into NWA. LHR/FRA/AMS/CDG/FCO and let AF/KL/AZ fly the rest. 
 
us non-unions better be hoping the pilots vote this turd down. (and this should be another lesson for the FAs. Live by ALPA, die by ALPA. Have fun losing the lines to Europe for more domestic turns!) 

 

[WorldTraveler]

funny how hard 700 tried to deny the existence of profit sharing for DL employees aand now that the pilots agree to monetize part of it into base pay, he is the first one to argue that it is a cut despite the fact that DL employee profit sharing has grown every year.

so which is it, 700? Does PS have value and if it does how come the IAM has missed getting it for its OWN employees or else it doesn't have value and is just icing on the cake for DL employees?

as for dawg and Kev, I'll bet you your 2014 profit sharing check that your compensation will increase in 2015 which is exactly what I want - and it will be driven by higher profit sharing.

If you don't believe me, then bet me and you'll get a double payout.

Stop with the cuts in profit sharing talk unless you are willing to back it up.

and the number of regional aircraft is REQUIRED to shrink by 25 in the pilot agreement. DL can trade up to larger RJs but the total number of RJs - and regional carrier pilots to fly them - shrinks.

Consdiering that DL will add 100 seat aircraft and be parking 50 seaters, DL will add 4X more mainline seats than they will get rid of in 50 seaters.

you, dawg, and others fail to note that the TATL JV with AF/KL is in one JV and the VS JV is in another. Nowhere has DL said they are eliminating scope requirements for the VS JV but rather that they are in DIFFERENT JVs.

 

[topDawg]

funny how hard 700 tried to deny the existence of profit sharing for DL employees aand now that the pilots agree to monetize part of it into base pay, he is the first one to argue that it is a cut despite the fact that DL employee profit sharing has grown every year.

so which is it, 700? Does PS have value and if it does how come the IAM has missed getting it for its OWN employees or else it doesn't have value and is just icing on the cake for DL employees?

as for dawg and Kev, I'll bet you your 2014 profit sharing check that your compensation will increase in 2015 which is exactly what I want - and it will be driven by higher profit sharing.

If you don't believe me, then bet me and you'll get a double payout.

Stop with the cuts in profit sharing talk unless you are willing to back it up.

and the number of regional aircraft is REQUIRED to shrink by 25 in the pilot agreement. DL can trade up to larger RJs but the total number of RJs - and regional carrier pilots to fly them - shrinks.

Consdiering that DL will add 100 seat aircraft and be parking 50 seaters, DL will add 4X more mainline seats than they will get rid of in 50 seaters.

you, dawg, and others fail to note that the TATL JV with AF/KL is in one JV and the VS JV is in another. Nowhere has DL said they are eliminating scope requirements for the VS JV but rather that they are in DIFFERENT JVs.

I don't believe I said anything about Virgin?
 
In the DL/AF/KL/AZ if the pilots agree to go from EASKs to straight block hours that is a 15% reduction in flying. 
 
The whole point of EASKs in the first place was that a 757 doesn't equal a A380. If Delta didn't want to have any big widebody jets flying across the Atlantic (I mean 77W/744/380) then this leveled the playing field. 
 
Potential earnings WT. We have talked about this before. Company says your going to get 5% then changes to 3% just cause. You got a pay raise but still got kicked in the balls.  

 

[WorldTraveler]

I was talking about VS. They are not included in the measurement with AF/KL/AZ.

I agree about the change from block hours to ASMs.

If your pay went up, you have not gotten kicked the balls.

I'm sorry if you believe you have but how that raise is calculated is only a source of pride for those who think they should be able to get more pay at the same PS formula and ALSO higher pay raises.

DL employees including pilots are pulling down larger raises in total compensation than any other employees in the US industry if not the world; regardless of how much DL is making, the numbers are just not going to keep going up if no other airline is increasing their pay as fast as DL.

and while investors got wiped out in BK, your pay never fell to ZERO. Never.

 

[topDawg]

I was talking about VS. They are not included in the measurement with AF/KL/AZ.

I agree about the change from block hours to ASMs.

I have to see the the wording on the Virgin part. The way it reads right now they can do whatever they want. They could completely replace Delta to LHR.....and I have a hard time believing that is right. So need to see the contract before I comment on Virgin.
the AF/KL/AZ part alone would get a no vote from me if I am a pilot.
 

If your pay went up, you have not gotten kicked the balls.

So then Delta can, and you will be happy, cut your pension as along as its industry standard? We just did this....
 

I'm sorry if you believe you have but how that raise is calculated is only a source of pride for those who think they should be able to get more pay at the same PS formula and ALSO higher pay raises.

It is craz......oh wait. I have gotten raises the last two years without PS being touched. Care to explain how that works.
 

DL employees including pilots are pulling down larger raises in total compensation than any other employees in the US industry if not the world; regardless of how much DL is making, the numbers are just not going to keep going up if no other airline is increasing their pay as fast as DL.

and while investors got wiped out in BK, your pay never fell to ZERO. Never.

First back to the deflection. "Well you have better than XX airline. shut up and be happy" Sorry doesn't work that way.
second check yourself killer. I got it both ways. I was an investor and an employee. 
 
and FWIW the people that got laid off would like to say hi (and i bet KMA) 

 

[WorldTraveler]

dawg,
I didn't say that DL could CUT anything based on industry standard or comparison.

But pay and compensation increases at DL are ABOVE industry standard and will continue to be.

I want to understand more about compliance with the VS JV but I don't think ALPA would agree to or DL would even ask for no controls on that at all.

every DL employee that wanted to get rehired could have if they wanted.

You are being compensated as an investor and as an employee for what you got in both depts. What you got as an employee is being increased based on what you had as an employee.

again, no employee, including pilots, were completely wiped out in BK.

many investors were.

 

[topDawg]

dawg,
I didn't say that DL could CUT anything based on industry standard or comparison.

But pay and compensation increases at DL are ABOVE industry standard and will continue to be.

I want to understand more about compliance with the VS JV but I don't think ALPA would agree to or DL would even ask for no controls on that at all.

every DL employee that wanted to get rehired could have if they wanted.

You are being compensated as an investor and as an employee for what you got in both depts. What you got as an employee is being increased based on what you had as an employee.

again, no employee, including pilots, were completely wiped out in BK.

many investors were.

Again. delta laid off employees. They got nothing from Delta 
how is that not being completely wiped out in BK? 
 
 
and again, You would be pissing and moaning too if you, you know, worked here. But long as it is better than AA that is all that really matters to you. 

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Just skimming through the 55+ page TA thread on APC one would be hard pressed to say the DL pilots are as thrilled with this TA as you'd think.

 

[WorldTraveler]

that was true with the 2012 TA as well and yet it passed.

here is one quote that caught my attention:

"What did you all expect? AA +20? That ain't happening in any universe. We ended up with AA +15. Damn, that isn't enough?

"Actually I'm waiting for one of you to say "that isn't true, PS isn't guaranteed." Which I will say sure is according to everyone who says 8,0,3,3. The only way that happens is if we have over 6 billion in profit like 2014. Then they forget that the remaining 11% of PS pays out. ADD it up. AA +15%.

"Can't have it both ways. Insisting profits are here forever and not account for the PS in total compensation.

"If this is rejected we continue down the path, fine. Next March we have an appointment with the NMB. They will laugh when we say AA +15% just ain't enough. You better drop the crack pipe if you think an iceberg isn't part of that future.

"NMB can do math boys and girls. They understand TVM as well. They really don't like Poo Monkeys who play with gasoline cans and matches. "

 

[southwind]

and yet the profits keep going up so there is no cut in PS.

you have never been able to figure out that a larger pie makes bigger pieces

DL employees will make more in profit sharing and the increase in their base compensation than any other US airline employees and probably anywhere in the world.

Sorry WT, either way, a 20% raise cuts deep into PS, even if the pie is bigger!

 

[metopower]

PMUS got 9.53% last year and three 4% raises before that each year.
 
The pilots and FAs at the New AA got DL plus 7% last raise.
 
Shall I go on?

Thanks ..now I have the ammunition to tell my pilot friends at aa that they are full of it. They do make more then I do! And all they say is how envious they are. By the way ...three pages of comparisons and comments by people that are not pilots. Work on your own crafts pay. Ridiculous.

 

[700UW]

Thanks ..now I have the ammunition to tell my pilot friends at aa that they are full of it. They do make more then I do! And all they say is how envious they are. By the way ...three pages of comparisons and comments by people that are not pilots. Work on your own crafts pay. Ridiculous.

Why dont you tell southwind the same?
 
I was replying to him.
 

Really? Please show us which "Unionized" carrier received more!

 

[metopower]

Why dont you tell southwind the same?
 
I was replying to him.

Sorry..that was a response to your ridiculous claim that a aa pilot makes 7% more then I do.

P.s. He's not bitching about anything you are.

 

[700UW]

Read their new CBA.