Texas cuts

[Watdahail?]

No, in A/C Maintenance at DFW we recently created four more managers jobs just to do attendance discussions. I'm not lying, that's their job.

That must be the 4 level 4 positions that were mentioned above?? You are kidding me..and they require an A&P license to do "attendance discussions", or else they'd be a L3, correct?

 

[eolesen]

From past "discussions", only someone with an A&P can understand why a mechanic might be missing work...

 

[AMFAMAN]

That must be the 4 level 4 positions that were mentioned above?? You are kidding me..and they require an A&P license to do "attendance discussions", or else they'd be a L3, correct?

Not A&P's, but I've told L4's, but never looked into it. We are also hearing of upwards of 11 more managers being hired at DFW.

 

[Hopeful]

From past "discussions", only someone with an A&P can understand why a mechanic might be missing work...

I'll ignore the usual "dig" aimed at A&P's because you obviously can't help yourself..

Now, about the LTA's ...They are called Lost Time Administrators... The last "shakeup" management had eliminated L4's from maintenance and whoever survived the cutting all became L5's and given fancy new titles like Tower Managers, Shift Managers and Out Of Service Mangers.
At JFK one L4 kept his rank and became an LTA and a L4 production support manager kept his rank and also became an LTA..

This is the usual "shell" game which we are referring to....no one actually hits the street.. these LTA positions were created because AA management wants to show us they are thinning out their ranks, but we are not blind and we see what's going on..

Why can't the existing supervisor, er, I mean, manager counsel the attendance issues?

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Lost time administrators? That's a new one...

When I left JFK we had half a dozen "Engagement Supervisors" who were responsible for attendance harassment...

 

[eolesen]

Lost time administrators? That's a new one...

The postition has been around for about ten years in ramp/passenger at the hubs.

Hopeful, it's not a dig at A&P's. It's a dig at the "no outsiders" mentality of M&E in general. There's no reason an admin supervisor or someone like this needs to have an A&P if they're not required to sign off or oversee actual wrench work. There's also no reason someone with an A&P shouldn't be able to supervising fleet service, passenger service, etc. The doors -should- be open in both directions. But they're not. That's my dig.

 

[777 fixer]

They won't cut SEA-ORD because they actually make some money off all the Boeing traffic between their corp HQ in Chicago and the facilities in Renton and Everett, and Boeing officials don't like flying on UA's Airbii.

Ironically four of the five SEA-ORD flights are on MD-80's.

 

[Veritas]

Ironically four of the five SEA-ORD flights are on MD-80's.

Did you mean to write Boeing MD-80? 😉

AA.com also refers to it as the Boeing MD-80 (S80).

 

[777 fixer]

Did you mean to write Boeing MD-80? 😉

AA.com also refers to it as the Boeing MD-80 (S80).

Never say that in the presense of a former Dougloid.

 

[Veritas]

Never say that in the presense of a former Dougloid.

😀

 

[Hopeful]

The postition has been around for about ten years in ramp/passenger at the hubs.

Hopeful, it's not a dig at A&P's. It's a dig at the "no outsiders" mentality of M&E in general. There's no reason an admin supervisor or someone like this needs to have an A&P if they're not required to sign off or oversee actual wrench work. There's also no reason someone with an A&P shouldn't be able to supervising fleet service, passenger service, etc. The doors -should- be open in both directions. But they're not. That's my dig.

the reason they require a supervisor..er now manager,to have an A&P is so they can sign an item off when a mechanic will not.. But on the other hand if you had a non A&P supervising an A&P, where is the line drawn when it comes time to discipline or counsel the mechanic on work related or performance issues?
What goes for maintenance goes for other departments: management should come from within the ranks of employees who work in those departments so they have an understanding of how those areas operate..

 

[bflyaa30]

Easily.

The statistic shown is management employees, which includes supervisors and admin staff in the back offices, plus the Credit Union, club, etc... Total management HC for DFW should be around 300 or so when you include back office and admin and exclude things like Sales, Credit Union, Admirals Club, etc...

IIRC, there are about 18 shift managers in ramp & passenger, plus however many there are at cargo and the hangars. There are something like 100+ L3 CSM's, another 25 or so in Flight Service, 5 or so in Flight, 50 in maintenance, and 25 in Cargo.

Just to be more specific -(FOR DFW)- there are 6 Pax Serv MOD's- zero vacancies, and 4 Ramp Svc MOD's, with 2 unfilled, delayed replacement vacancies....

 

[DFWFSC]

The best way to find out how many managers there are at DFW, just yell "Aircraft damage on gate C20" on the radio and you'll see more MOD's, CSM's and other bigshots then you could ever imagine.

 

[Bob Owens]

Hopeful, it's not a dig at A&P's. It's a dig at the "no outsiders" mentality of M&E in general. There's no reason an admin supervisor or someone like this needs to have an A&P if they're not required to sign off or oversee actual wrench work. There's also no reason someone with an A&P shouldn't be able to supervising fleet service, passenger service, etc. The doors -should- be open in both directions. But they're not. That's my dig.

It may have something to do with the FAA not looking too favorably at having rank and file A&Ps answering to non-A&Ps as to how they perform their work.

Several years back at LGA we had Time Study people, a bunch of college kids, observe our work, which we tolerated but when they started suggusting that we do things differently the Feds were called and that was the end of that.

I also recall another occasion at JFK where Crandall decided to go out on the Ramp to question the mechanics who were working on his delayed 727 flight to DFW-that one went out of service after a lenghty delay that was extended by Crandalls presence and interference.

I think there should be a separation between those who are primarily concerned with ETAs and revenue and those who are primarily concerned with safety and anyone without some sort of FAA certification should be blocked from running certain departments, if you want to be a manager in M&E of Flight take the plunge, get FAA certified, should be a breeze for any of you MBAs out there right?

When we get our A&Ps the training is basically an indoctrination into the culture of caution. "Dont take risks" is the prevailing theme. The plus side is it helps keep passengers safe, the down side is that behavior often carries beyond working on airplanes and over into our general nature and that makes us easy pick'ens for exploitation by scumbags.Perhaps if we were willing to take more risk we would be earning a lot more, but I dont know if it would benifit the passengers in the long run.

In closing, while I agree that managers who oversee maintenance work should posess an A&P its not a union rule and we had no input into the making of that rule.

 

[eolesen]

I'm fully aware that it's M&E's policy, not a union requirement. How often do you really go to a supervisor for their opinion on fixing a bird, though? Isn't that what the tech crew chief is for?

I'll never agree that it's safer to be supervised by a newly minted A&P who has never worked on an airplane with more than three tires, vs. someone who spent 20 years around aircraft.

By your definition, it's better to have scabs like PTO be your supervisor. Keep the requirement in place, and that's what you'll continue to wind up with...

BTW, Flight regularly hires managers who aren't pilots, mainly due to the fact that a fourth year pilot earns more than the average Level 5 manager does, and they take a pay cut going into management...