Thanks Doug: US Outsourcing 7 cities

[Dont call me Shirley]

If you dont have scope, you dont have job security, and its has been shown over and over in the airline industry, collective bargaining 101 is all about the Scope Language.

You are so right. Sadly, too many fail to realize this. As I've said before, and extra two Dollars an hour won't matter if the jobs are outsourced. And people in hubs are not immune. What would happen in Philly if all those 170s are no longer considered "mainline equivalent". As CWA moves into contract negotiations, scope should be priority one.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Do you know US mainline employees up until the blood bath of 1992 worked the express flights and it wasnt outsourced?

That '92 bloodbath would have been very different if the station agents had had a contract back then.

 

[strangiatotheme]

They cant be gone if the WN/TWU CBA states its Fleet Service work.

They can be if WN stops flying there.

 

[700UW]

Really?

I think we all know that if they pull out of a station, they wont keep employees, I mean seriously, thats what you came up with?

 

[strangiatotheme]

Really?

I think we all know that if they pull out of a station, they wont keep employees, I mean seriously, thats what you came up with?

Uh, maybe you should go back and read my post again, slowly, and this time try to comprehend what I actually wrote. I said it was a bad comparison because they don't serve cities with only a couple of flights. Most or all of their stations have a high enough number of flights that, were it US flying there, would also necessitate keeping ramp in-house. It's apples to oranges.

 

[Airline Employee]

Why do people harp on the fact that "they told us not to sign this contract"? Remember that the IAM wanted to put all of their eggs in a basket called "snap back". They didn't even negotiate with the company for a joint contract during that time because they thought that they'd win and gain all that they lost in BK court while the west, which wasn't a part of that would have lost with threatened outsourcing. The snap back failed! So after the union lost that then they negotiated with the company. Maybe the IAM should have used the TWU contract which was already amendable. These layoffs suck so hopefully the union will go more for job security before pay.

 

[700UW]

No its not comparing apples to oranges.

Lets see a plane flies from City A to City B and WN employees work the ramp, due to their scope language.

US flies a plane to from City A to City B and the ramp is outsourced due to inferior scope language.

If US and WN both fly a 737 to the same city pairs, I am pretty sure, that duties are the same when a plane is turned, at least last time I checked it was.

Bags get unloaded, and loaded, pretty easy concept and also ancillary duties.

The thing that is different is WN doesnt outsource flying and aircraft servicing, unlike US.

And WN has been profitable for over 30 years straight, highest percentage of unionized employees and highest paid, and WN doesnt fee you to death like US does.

 

[700UW]

Why do people harp on the fact that "they told us not to sign this contract"? Remember that the IAM wanted to put all of their eggs in a basket called "snap back". They didn't even negotiate with the company for a joint contract during that time because they thought that they'd win and gain all that they lost in BK court while the west, which wasn't a part of that would have lost with threatened outsourcing. The snap back failed! So after the union lost that then they negotiated with the company. Maybe the IAM should have used the TWU contract which was already amendable. These layoffs suck so hopefully the union will go more for job security before pay.

There was no snap back in the CBA nor was there ever a grievance on it. You are confusing the Change of Control language, and the AFA and ALPA also lost that grievance.

US was the acquiring carrier under the guise of the NMB, not the HP,that is why the IAM/US CBA was the basis for the merged CBA. And the rank and file on the East warned the West a million times what was going to happen.

The history of how US outsourced was right there in front of you, the west saw $$$ and ran for it and didnt realize the job they voted to give away was their own.

 

[strangiatotheme]

No its not comparing apples to oranges.

Lets see a plane flies from City A to City B and WN employees work the ramp, due to their scope language.

US flies a plane to from City A to City B and the ramp is outsourced due to inferior scope language.

If US and WN both fly a 737 to the same city pairs, I am pretty sure, that duties are the same when a plane is turned, at least last time I checked it was.

Bags get unloaded, and loaded, pretty easy concept and also ancillary duties.

The thing that is different is WN doesnt outsource flying and aircraft servicing, unlike US.

And WN has been profitable for over 30 years straight, highest percentage of unionzed employees and highest paid, and WN doesnt fee you to death like US does.

Still missing the point. I'm not sure if you're trying to be cute or if you really don't get what I'm trying to say. They don't fly just one or two 737s through a station; their smallest station has, I think, five flights a day (and I know that's less than 56, but there's also a whole list of cities we have with language for 28 weekly). Let's say they had language to outsource cities below 28 flights weekly. How many would be outsourced? Zero. They also don't have any sort of flying contracted out to another airline. So it seems a little odd to make a comparison because there are virtually no stations in their system that replicate the current situation faced by US. If WN was serving some cities with just one flight a day and still keeping everyone in-house - something that is highly unlikely, given how FL is closing a lot of these types of routes down before the merger closes - then I would completely agree with you in the post I was originally referencing. But they don't, and seem to make every attempt possible to avoid flying completely to those types of places.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

We've known that for a while. Republic, PSA, Air Wisconsin.......When the west gets rid of their final 737s and receives more A321s they will just fly more of the former east routes.

Time for a slow down, if not a shut down?

I have not had to do anything to encourage a slow down until now. The company is not complying with status quo, why should I? Piss on tempe.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Time for a slow down, if not a shut down?

IMO the way Tempe is running or ruining this place a shut down may not be that far away.

 

[Jester]

They don't fly just one or two 737s through a station; their smallest station has, I think, five flights a day (and I know that's less than 56, but there's also a whole list of cities we have with language for 28 weekly).

After a quick review of Southwest schedule, the fewest number of flights departing a station during the week, I could find were only 7 daily flights from both CHS and GPS, and those are fairly recent additions. I agree with you that is very unlikely that SWA will keep the soon-to-be former AirTran cities having only 2 flights a day are likely to be kept. SWA prefers to keep better control on its product by using its own people, and there is not enough economies of scale to justify a station.

So Concurs Jester.

 

[BLUTO]

The bottom line is this, SCOPE LANGUAGE can be written to encompass almost anything regarding your job status! They can offer you a thousand dollars per hour, and then include scope that makes sure you will never see it!

700U is about the only poster on here who has a clue of how this stuff works! Hopefully he will keep posting accurate unbiased information.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

IMO the way Tempe is running or ruining this place a shut down may not be that far away.

Proof?

Show your math.

5 years of AWA management running the airline, with profits, they are so horrible, aren't they? (They thank you for your LOA 93 wages BTW)

 

[Jester]

700U is about the only poster on here who has a clue of how this stuff works! Hopefully he will keep posting accurate unbiased information.

When did he start? The Gladys Kravitz of the Board who opines on nearly thread, even those topics for which he has no personal experience, especially having been removed from the company for nearly a decade at this point.

So Chides Jester.