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Thanks Doug: US Outsourcing 7 cities

Summary:

In 2007:
WN CEO made $1.6 million. Average WN Employee Wage/Benefits were $90,500. WN CEO made 14 times average employee wage/benefits
US CEO made $5.4 million. Average US Employee Wage/Benefits were $64,3000. US CEO made 85 times average employee wage/benefits

WN CEO made 7 times average total pilot wage/benefits.
US CEO made 37 times average total pilot wage/benefits.

http://www.swelblog.com/articles/a-look-at-us-airline-ceo-compensation-through-a-different-le.html

2007 Airline CEO Pay vs Average Airline Employee Wage/Benefits Compensation
execComp_table1.jpg


2007 Airline CEO Pay vs Average Airline Pilot/Copilot Wage/Benefits Compensation
execCompTable2.jpg
 
Off Topic!

Not really as it applies to US Airways justification of outsourcing as professed by Callaway Golf.

His position was that US Airways and their unions in effect caused their jobs to be outsourced by working for above market rates. As DCA, Bluto and others have demonstrated through their prolific research that Mr Golf's assertion is not only a knee jerk reaction but is factually wrong.

Further it demonstrates his complete lack of knowledge of outsourcing, union contracts and is only capable of bleating the company line of "Unions Bad, Parker Good".

It's like you always say 700UW, Don't let facts get in the way. You'd think US had learned the lessons of the high cost of cheap with SHARES, Outsourcing Res offshore only to bring it back onshore, (A move that IMO was directly related to the change in bonus comp for the Trailer Park Boys)
 
Off Topic!

My apologies. However, I thought the conversation about closures and CBAs might benefit from this information. It seems some here argue that companies cannot afford union wages and that unions and union wages are the problem....However, the data show that there are airlines out there that can compensate (more highly!) their highly unionized workforce, turn a profit, grow market share, at the same time provide ample CEO and executive compensation. My only goal was to provide data. Again, I apologize if this has been off topic.
 
And for 2010...

http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/ceo-2010-pay-at-major-and-regional-airlines/

CEO 2010 pay at major and regional airlines — do they deserve it? Take our poll

by Charlie Leocha on May 13, 2011

Here is a list of the 2010 compensation of airline CEOs. It has never been such a good time to be an airline CEO. Never have companies lost so much money over time while giving their top executives so much in compensation.

Think back to the founders of many of these airlines and the executives that built the airline systems we know today. None of them raked in the millions in compensation that today’s executives are making. The largesse does not only go to the CEOs, but it seeps down to the top 50 or so executives at virtually all airlines.

At many airlines the compensation of the top 50 executives appears to gobble up most of the hard-won profits. At the same time that some of these same airlines are dishing out millions to executives, they are dragging their feet on labor negotiations and fighting passenger protections.

Here is the CEO list in descending order of compensation.
2010-CEO-Salaries-Descending.gif


Here is the Airline Quality Rating from 2011.
AQR2011.gif


Something is wrong in this picture from the consumer and workers’ points of view. When we look at the list from an airline quality rating point of view (except for the compensation to the Hawaiian Airlines CEO) the top-paid CEOs are all in the bottom half of the quality ranking and the lowest-paid CEOs rise to the top. Clearly, delivery of quality to passengers makes no difference in compensation.
 
My apologies. However, I thought the conversation about closures and CBAs might benefit from this information. It seems some here argue that companies cannot afford union wages and that unions and union wages are the problem....However, the data show that there are airlines out there that can compensate (more highly!) their highly unionized workforce, turn a profit, grow market share, at the same time provide ample CEO and executive compensation. My only goal was to provide data. Again, I apologize if this has been off topic.

Why do you find it necessary to apologize to someone that doesn't work for USAir, and has no dog in the fight?
 
Why do you find it necessary to apologize to someone that doesn't work for USAir, and has no dog in the fight?

Perhaps he/she is modeling behavior known as "Civility"? I realize that it's not all that common so maybe you failed to recognize it when you saw it?

Just a small point of order if I may. You're correct that 700UW doesn't work for US Air. Neither do you! Nor does anyone else as US Air is defunct and has been for many years.
 
Perhaps he/she is modeling behavior known as "Civility"? I realize that it's not all that common so maybe you failed to recognize it when you saw it?

Just a small point of order if I may. You're correct that 700UW doesn't work for US Air. Neither do you! Nor does anyone else as US Air is defunct and has been for many years.

Just because a Wolfe in wolf's clothing called himself changing the name when he took the money and ran, doesn't mean that I have to accept the name change!
 
Regardless if we deviated from a specific topic or not, we we were able to demonstrate a collective intelligence that presented hard accurate information regarding the "supposed" industry reasons for outsourcing work. I think that is why they call them threads!

The company is a chameleon when it comes to image and perception. It portrays itself as a struggling low-fare carrier to the workers, and a full service international legacy to the public. So, don't be foolish enough to think that just because some corporate stuffed shirt proclaims the practice as necessary to defend a competitive business model that you should accept it as gospel.
 
Not really as it applies to US Airways justification of outsourcing as professed by Callaway Golf.

His position was that US Airways and their unions in effect caused their jobs to be outsourced by working for above market rates. As DCA, Bluto and others have demonstrated through their prolific research that Mr Golf's assertion is not only a knee jerk reaction but is factually wrong.

Further it demonstrates his complete lack of knowledge of outsourcing, union contracts and is only capable of bleating the company line of "Unions Bad, Parker Good".

It's like you always say 700UW, Don't let facts get in the way. You'd think US had learned the lessons of the high cost of cheap with SHARES, Outsourcing Res offshore only to bring it back onshore, (A move that IMO was directly related to the change in bonus comp for the Trailer Park Boys)
You'll have to connect the dots a little more for me to understand how anyone has demonstrated I am factually wrong. Here's a brief summary of my hypothesis:

1) Unions inflate wages above market rates. (Why would they exist if they couldn't provide that fundamental "benefit" to their members?)

2) Unions negatively affect productivity in multiple ways... they advocate for paying people more to do less (Labor Day holiday was a great example, thanks 700 for that softball) ... they enforce unnatural restrictions on employees doing or not doing certain tasks for the benefit of the company and the customer (at non-union shops there are no restrictions on supervisors or managers jumping in and helping to move a long customer queue through or stepping on the production line during busy time) ... by preventing Management from properly disciplining or terminating underperforming employees ... by adding expensive work rules like paid vacation days above what non-union employees are offered ... and by demanding onerous work rules and filing grievances which Management must respond to thus expending money, time and resources that would not be required in a non-union environment. Each of these, and there are many more, reduce productivity and thus weaken a company's financial postion.

3) Because of #1 & #2 above, many jobs and industries which were formally strong in this nation have seen dramatic declines since unions came along to "protect workers". I submit this is the case because companies, in the pursuit of generating the profits and ROI demanded by their shareholders and investors, decided to outsource jobs to contractors and/or to move entire operations to other countries where the total cost of labor is less expensive than doing the same work that can be done by unionized employees in the US.

4) The final and fully expected result of all of this is that unions in America are directly responsible for lost jobs and the outsourcing decisions companies make. US is not altogether different in their approach than any other publicly traded company. When the financial environment warrants a decision to eliminate over-market priced jobs in favor of generating a better ROI though outsourcing, Managers would be foolish not to take it under strong consideration.

Parker's and other executive compensation, especially in the form of stock-options, are irrelevant to the facts at hand. If the executives all agreed to cap their compensation at $100k I would expect and anticipate that they would make the exact same decisions as they do at their current level of compensation. They wouldn't stick around mind you, but as fiduciaries of the company they are fundamentally responsible for making good business decisions independent of their personal compensation - that is what a fiduciary is. Thus, there is simply no correlation between executive compensation and the decision to outsource except that outsourcing is proper for fiscal responsibility (as opposed to unions), and managers are charged with doing just that.

Executive compensation is tied to performance metrics because that is in the best interest of the shareholders/owners. The better the executives perform on achieving shareholder objectives, the better they are compensated. Only in some screwed up liberal philosophy would people be paid not to provide a greater return on investment, oh wait, that's exactly what unions do.
 
You'll have to connect the dots a little more for me to understand how anyone has demonstrated I am factually wrong. Here's a brief summary of my hypothesis:

1) Unions inflate wages above market rates. (Why would they exist if they couldn't provide that fundamental "benefit" to their members?)

2) Unions negatively affect productivity in multiple ways... they advocate for paying people more to do less (Labor Day holiday was a great example, thanks 700 for that softball) ... they enforce unnatural restrictions on employees doing or not doing certain tasks for the benefit of the company and the customer (at non-union shops there are no restrictions on supervisors or managers jumping in and helping to move a long customer queue through or stepping on the production line during busy time) ... by preventing Management from properly disciplining or terminating underperforming employees ... by adding expensive work rules like paid vacation days above what non-union employees are offered ... and by demanding onerous work rules and filing grievances which Management must respond to thus expending money, time and resources that would not be required in a non-union environment. Each of these, and there are many more, reduce productivity and thus weaken a company's financial postion.

3) Because of #1 & #2 above, many jobs and industries which were formally strong in this nation have seen dramatic declines since unions came along to "protect workers". I submit this is the case because companies, in the pursuit of generating the profits and ROI demanded by their shareholders and investors, decided to outsource jobs to contractors and/or to move entire operations to other countries where the total cost of labor is less expensive than doing the same work that can be done by unionized employees in the US.

4) The final and fully expected result of all of this is that unions in America are directly responsible for lost jobs and the outsourcing decisions companies make. US is not altogether different in their approach than any other publicly traded company. When the financial environment warrants a decision to eliminate over-market priced jobs in favor of generating a better ROI though outsourcing, Managers would be foolish not to take it under strong consideration.

Parker's and other executive compensation, especially in the form of stock-options, are irrelevant to the facts at hand. If the executives all agreed to cap their compensation at $100k I would expect and anticipate that they would make the exact same decisions as they do at their current level of compensation. They wouldn't stick around mind you, but as fiduciaries of the company they are fundamentally responsible for making good business decisions independent of their personal compensation - that is what a fiduciary is. Thus, there is simply no correlation between executive compensation and the decision to outsource except that outsourcing is proper for fiscal responsibility (as opposed to unions), and managers are charged with doing just that.

Executive compensation is tied to performance metrics because that is in the best interest of the shareholders/owners. The better the executives perform on achieving shareholder objectives, the better they are compensated. Only in some screwed up liberal philosophy would people be paid not to provide a greater return on investment, oh wait, that's exactly what unions do.


You know what CG? We have the perfect setting here with our pilots to try out your theories. Petition USAPA to allow the company to drop the west pilot contract. Completely. No wage rates, no restrictions on medical increases, no min fleet, no scope-nothing. Leave the company free to set things as they wish and let's see how happy you are. What do you think? I'm game!
 
You know what CG? We have the perfect setting here with our pilots to try out your theories. Petition USAPA to allow the company to drop the west pilot contract. Completely. No wage rates, no restrictions on medical increases, no min fleet, no scope-nothing. Leave the company free to set things as they wish and let's see how happy you are. What do you think? I'm game!
Federal law would not permit USAPA to drop a certain segment of its population from collective representation. The only way for this to happen would be for USAPA to be decertified as the CBA which could likely only happen if USAPA filed for Chapter 7 liquidation. Federal law is so screwed up that a represented group under the RLA cannot vote out a union, the only provision is for a vote to replace one CBA with another.

How about a point-by-point discussion on my previous post? Point 1: do you concur or disagree that unions/collective bargaining agreements raise wages above free-market rates? (Note, I'm not referring to industry averages but rather the rate the average qualified job seeking applicant would be willing to accept if offered a position, say as a mainline NB pilot?
 
How about a point-by-point discussion on my previous post? Point 1: do you concur or disagree that unions/collective bargaining agreements raise wages above free-market rates? (Note, I'm not referring to industry averages but rather the rate the average qualified job seeking applicant would be willing to accept if offered a position, say as a mainline NB pilot?

Depends. Is that why the east rates are below market? Wouldn't you have to say the the RLA and our CBA have effectively kept us below market? I might say that collective bargaining agreements in general do that, but it is much the fault of poor management that would let them rise above what is a healthy balance, as what happened here with parity +1%, which was,IMHO, envisioned as a cutting provision. To "blame" is on the union, and maybe you are not trying to do that, is short sighted.
 

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