The Future At Clt If Us Fails?
- Thread starter CLT-Douglas
- Start date
CLT-Douglas said:
Pretty quickly, actually, though the initial response of the network carriers would be to upgauge existing flights and/or add frequency to their hubs. As of 2002, US's share of the domestic O&D traffic at CLT stood at around 64%, or around 8000 seats/day (this is both directions combined). If CO were to upgauge to mainline, DL were to fly 767's to ATL and CVG, UA and AA were to operate 757's or 767's to ORD, DFW, DEN, etc., you'd soon see most of the existing demand satisfied. With its RJ armada, I can see DL as the most likely to offer point-to-point flying from CLT to places like BOS, LGA, DCA, PHL, etc. (i.e. the highest O&D non-hub cities).
The big question is how quickly the LCC's (most likely WN, B6, and FL) would jump in to offer service on some of the more popular routes from CLT. My gut instinct is that you'd see it happen very quickly unless the US leases were tied up somehow in the bankruptcy proceedings.
Well, if the new runway is under construction, there's not much they can do but finish it. They can slow down the construction if it will save money, but the federal government is probably paying much of the cost anyway. Going forward with an expansion of Concourse E would seem foolish to me since I do not see the demand existing without the US hub.
The real value of the CLT hub is only as a functioning, connecting hub. Piedmont spent years building that operation, and it's expensive for airlines to build new hubs bit-by-bit. All the reasons you gave are good reasons for the network carriers and LCC's to add service to CLT, but not enough to justify another airport building a connecting hub there. After all, St. Louis has nearly twice the population of the Charlotte area and yet AA dramatically scaled back the former TWA hub (in part due to WN's presence there, though).
The one wild card here is the fact that CLT is the only real alternative in the region to ATL. But I just can't see any of the legacy carriers having the resources to build a hub at CLT at present. Maybe, just maybe CO or AA.
I think CLT will look a lot like BNA but with more empty gates. One or more LCC's will come in with a good number of flights (I'm thinking 50-100 total LCC departures after two or three years) but that will still leave a couple of concourses' worth of empty gates.
Most international flying (including Caribbean) would disappear. The LH flight doesn't make sense without US Airways there and in the Star Alliance. The international O&D isn't enough to support the flights.
OP
- Feb 12, 2003
- 179
- 2
- Thread Starter
- #18
Thanks sfb for your detailed answers to my questions.
I noticed you mentioned Continental or American possibly having the resources in using CLT as a hub one day. I would tend to think American would remain stronger in RDU then in CLT. Continental it seems would be a good candidate to build a stronger southeast presence, and use the hub as a north south connector much as US Airways does between CLT and PHL. What about Northwest though? I know they have a hub in MEM, but if perhaps they picked up some Airbus from US and took over the Caribbean flights along with the ground equipment they could move out of MEM to a more established and modern hub facility in CLT with plenty of room to grow.
I noticed you mentioned Continental or American possibly having the resources in using CLT as a hub one day. I would tend to think American would remain stronger in RDU then in CLT. Continental it seems would be a good candidate to build a stronger southeast presence, and use the hub as a north south connector much as US Airways does between CLT and PHL. What about Northwest though? I know they have a hub in MEM, but if perhaps they picked up some Airbus from US and took over the Caribbean flights along with the ground equipment they could move out of MEM to a more established and modern hub facility in CLT with plenty of room to grow.
KCFlyer
Veteran
air chief said:
Which terminal would that be? Last time I was out there, A, B, and C were all in use.
They had been rotating renovations around the three circles, but I'd have thought they'd be finished by now.
Airtran is pulling out of GSO in two weeks, Greensboro News and Record reported today that Airtran enjoyed the highest load factor of all the airline serving GSO, 80 plus %...... maybe they have inside info on U's future and are preparing to make a move. CLT and GSO are pretty close, maybe they have decided to move their focus to CLT. Piedmont used the Convenient facilities in CLT to lure passengers from Eastern in ATL, maybe they plan to lure Delta passengers from ATL to CLT for their conns.
OldGuyinPA
Veteran
I don't understand why CLT is building that parking deck given the uncertainty of US Airways' future. I hope that they reconsider the third parallel runway. I also don't understand why they are building some sort of new toll road into the PIT airport. If it is a toll road perhaps that's a private venture. But the parking deck and runway are being paid for w/ tax money. I think it would be prudent to wait on building the runway at least.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
On the subject...
Fitch Assigns $165MM Charlotte, NC Airport Rev Bonds 'A' Rtg; Stable Outlook
NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 18, 2004--Fitch Ratings assigns an underlying 'A' rating to City of Charlotte, North Carolina's bonds as follows:
Press Release
[Edit] Interesting comments toward the bottom about scenerios with loss of 50% and 100% of US Airways service.
Jim
Fitch Assigns $165MM Charlotte, NC Airport Rev Bonds 'A' Rtg; Stable Outlook
NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 18, 2004--Fitch Ratings assigns an underlying 'A' rating to City of Charlotte, North Carolina's bonds as follows:
Press Release
[Edit] Interesting comments toward the bottom about scenerios with loss of 50% and 100% of US Airways service.
Jim
BoeingBoy said:
Jim-
Interesting that Fitch agrees with me about CLT -- but then I think that it's just common sense when you consider the state of the industry.
mh2438 said:
Well, the third parallel runway won't be necessary if US Airways fails, but they may already be stuck with the construction contracts at this point. As for a third parking garage, they're going to need that no matter whether US has a hub at CLT or not. Remember that connecting passengers don't use parking garages; it's the CLT O&D passengers who do. In fact, if US Airways were to go under and significant LCC service were to be added at CLT, you'd probably see MORE demand for parking as Charlotte-area travelers flew more from CLT, not to mention the fact that lower fares would draw more traffic from around the region. The loss of US's commuter service would probably force folks currently using smaller airports in the Carolinas to drive to CLT rather than flying -- again increasing demand for parking.
I sincerely hate to say this folks, but CLT(like PIT and US) are soon to be "toast"
Perspective carriers moving into CLT ??
AA, Nope.(their running a half a$$ed hub in RDU)
UA, They're struggleing to keep the "lights burning"
DL, In the process of shrinking
NW, to fly a few n/s to DTW,MSP,MEM "ONLY", I doubt it.
=============================================
WN, already in RDU
Air Tran, Nope, HUB in nearby ATL.
B6, all CLT would get out of them is n/s's to NYC ONLY.
Sadly, these are the casualties of this lunatic business, that so many of us are ADDICTED to.
Good Luck CLT.
NH/BB's
Perspective carriers moving into CLT ??
AA, Nope.(their running a half a$$ed hub in RDU)
UA, They're struggleing to keep the "lights burning"
DL, In the process of shrinking
NW, to fly a few n/s to DTW,MSP,MEM "ONLY", I doubt it.
=============================================
WN, already in RDU
Air Tran, Nope, HUB in nearby ATL.
B6, all CLT would get out of them is n/s's to NYC ONLY.
Sadly, these are the casualties of this lunatic business, that so many of us are ADDICTED to.
Good Luck CLT.
NH/BB's
OOPS, sorry, I forgot CO(an Interesting thought)
Best bet, DL runs a comair shuttle CLT/ATL, with a handful of n/s's to big city airports this side of DEN/SLC.
NH/BB's
Best bet, DL runs a comair shuttle CLT/ATL, with a handful of n/s's to big city airports this side of DEN/SLC.
NH/BB's
this is a question I have that has been bugging me...
we all talk about how CLT has the highest fares in the nation, and that US won't introduce go fares there (at least for awhile) because they basically have a monopoly. However, since the O&D is so low, how much would it hurt to implement go fares? CLT is about connections, not O&D... would US really lose a lot of revenue doing this? And as a result, wouldn't this move stimulate more O&D?
we all talk about how CLT has the highest fares in the nation, and that US won't introduce go fares there (at least for awhile) because they basically have a monopoly. However, since the O&D is so low, how much would it hurt to implement go fares? CLT is about connections, not O&D... would US really lose a lot of revenue doing this? And as a result, wouldn't this move stimulate more O&D?
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