The real reason why Wolf giving the IAM another vote

[chipmunn]

Joesy:

Joesy said: This company will not let 1.5 billion dollars in finacing from Texas Pacific and the Taxpayors go down the gutter. Would you? Of course not. This company feeds and gets high off of financing and its fix won't allow it to just pick its ball up and go home.

Chip comments: Joesy, the DIP/Emergence financing and ATSB loan guarantee require the $154 million IAM & $70 million CWA cuts. Nobody is gong to loan somebody money, whether it's a mortgage, car loan, DIP financing, Emergence financing, or loan guarantee unless the debtor meets the credit requirements.

The judge does not care how much money you, any other employee, or me make. The courts primary concern is for the creditors whether it is the company continuing to operate as a viable going concern or be liquidated.

No agreements = no current financing & loan guarantee. Therefore, if either restructuring agreement is not ratified the judge will likely side with the company, with the court's rulings so far when used as a formal reorganization benchmark and when considering the financing requirements.

If either deal is not ratified, it will be interesting to see what occurs at the S.1113 hearing when in my opinion the court voids any union contract who does not have a restructuring agreement.

I agree with you Siegel does not want to go down this path, but if either deal is rejected he will have no other option but to seek to abrogate the contract(s).

Chip

 

[pitguy]

I agree cat 111. We mechanics have to do this for our families and ourselves and we do not advice from others who think they know what is best for us, but do not know what we are really voting on and how it pertains to us. VOTE NO AND VOTE OFTEN. HEHE...

 

[Steiner]

How about a quick show of hands of all who would change to a yes vote if the IAM would drop the BOD, the negotiating fee and the IAM pension from the vote? (AKA Lose the IAM leadership perk pork, represent the membership)

 

[AP Tech]

The union and the company said we did not understand the contract before the first vote. Now we are scheduled to vote on the same thing the 17th of Sep, but has anyone heard of any scheduled meetings to explain everything to us before the next vote? I did not think so.....This is going to be a real honest vote! Goodbye IAM

 

[chipmunn]

T-Man:

If the IAM-M rejects the restructuring agreement, the company is asking the court to void your current working agreement and you will have no contract if Judge Mitchell agrees (he has agreed to every company bankruptcy motion so far) with the company's position. Moreover, the company is asking the court to order the IAM-M to pay $5.4 million per month for six months in damages if the restructuring agreement is not ratified.

How will the IAM-M members pay the damages without a contract or a job per the potential court order, when the IAM-M and its members could then be held in contempt of court?

I know this sounds ludicrous, but what if the court agrees with the company's claim?

Chip

 

[t-man]

For the people that aren't in the I.A.M.-M.
These are the reasons that we can't accept the contract.
1)We are taking a 19.8% paycut not a 6.8% if you include the parity raise that's due to us next month.(Just like the
6.5 million is due to management personel).
Also we are due a license premium increase at that same time.

2)We are loosing many benifits that are past brothers and sisters had to fight long and hard for. (like are paid lunches).

3)If this proposal is approved we will be stuck with this contract for a minimum of 9yrs.( because it takes a minimum of 2yrs. to get a new contract).

4)There's no garantees that this company is gonna servive
even when we take concessions.
That's right I said when we take concessions because I'm not against taking concessions.
I am however against this proposal because they are trying
take more than the amount they asked for originally.
So Dave if you read this post You what my vote is,No!!!!!!

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

[BR][FONT size=1]141-M can declare bankruptcy, reject debts and obligations and negotiate Signifigant concessions from all stakeholders. [/FONT]

 

[pitguy]

I love how these guys from other work areas love to tell mechanics how to vote. The mechanics must be to confused. Some people can't mind their own business. A320 Driver should know that our pilots are still over paid and under utilized. They should give more back and work full time and not part time. Besides we all know just how much we can trust the likes of the pilot group. I have had four guys from management say to me that we are taking it in the shorts with this forced contract. Oh and A320 Driver how little you know about union corruption. I also realize some people are not very employable with their limited skills. Like a pilot for example is usually either making a killing at a major airline or starving since they have very limited skills for employment and that could be one reason they are always so quick to take concessions.

 

[t-man]

Chip,
Sorry it took so long to reply.
I feel that if the judge tears up our contract so be it.
At least we won't have to deal with this crappy proposal for 7yrs.

 

[chipmunn]

T-Man:

T-Man said: Sorry it took so long to reply. I feel that if the judge tears up our contract so be it. At least we won't have to deal with this crappy proposal for 7yrs

Chip comments: T-Man, nobody likes this situation. We are all getting hurt, but the problem is if the judge approves the company's request to abrogate any union contract that has not been voluntarily restructured, you won't have to deal with this crappy proposal, but instead it appears likely the new agreement will be much worse. Many of your colleagues will be stuck with a worse agreement when they elect to remain employed at US post S.1113 hearing. In addition, your union and potentially all IAM-M members could have a court ordered penalty where you would have a $30.6 million obligation, regardless if a member remains employed at US.

I know this sounds ludicrous, but so do many divorce penalties.

Some IAM-M members may want to burn the place to the ground with their anger, but I doubt many employees want to hurt their brothers and sisters within their own labor group. At least 43 percent of the IAM-M voted for the Restructuring Agreement and in my opinion the number will be greater this time around, because of the two options presented to Judge Mitchell. Gauging from this week's hearing on aircraft leases, he appears to be squarely in the company's court.

I'm as upset as anybody, but Cav is right this battle has been lost, but in my opinion the war has not been lost. I believe this is a fight for all US employees and for our company to live for another day, so in the end we can win the war.

Chip

 

[Steiner]

Wow, does the knob on your Doom-and-Gloom machine go up to 11? You make it sound like the mechanics will end up as indentured servants. Will they still be allowed to quit?

 

[A320 Driver]

PITGUY...now is this what you call the guy in the pit at the Jiffy Lube that drains the oil in my car? Maybe it soon will be. You guys are so arrogant you make me sick. As for pilots having no skills...time will tell.

The cl***ic struggle...cl*** warfare.

 

[jettek]

[blockquote]
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On 9/7/2002 9:59:56 AM MarkMyWords wrote:

From the press release that I read, it sounded like the IAM requested the re-vote. They quoted Mr. Tiberi as saying that there was "confusion" amoung the membership about the consequences of turning down the T/A. No where did it say that the compny was "tweaking" thier proposal. If I read it correctly, you will be voting on the exact same package. I take it the IAM still hasn't polled it's constituents to see what they really wanted? Sounds like all of the pork is still going to be there.

I was also reading where the IAM dropped their objection to the 6.5 million dollar bonuses. While there was a stipulation in there that no one over the level of Senior VP receive bonus money, that was the intention all along. Has the IAM lost touch with the people they are representing or are the views expressed here the views of the minority?

Don't get me wrong,I am glad the IAM has an opportunity to vote on their package again, but without any changes, will it really p***? I don't think so. I can see where the card signing for AMFA will be picking up speed very soon.
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[/blockquote]
This is exactly why people were willing to eliminate their own jobs to prevent the I.A.M.'s protection of unskilled groups to maintain dues. The no voters recognized that 88% of the country is non-union and were ready to gamble for recognition realizing they had given the company a free hand to correct past thug-mentality wrongs

 

[jettek]

[blockquote]
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On 9/7/2002 1:54:28 PM AOG-N-IT wrote:

From the numbers of people I have talked to... I think the term "Confused" is most accurate. Most all , have been under the impression that Judge Mitchell had/has the ability to tweak or ammend the current situation...in the form of removing the "Retro" or upholding the earned vacation and sick-days. Many have bristled at the phrase "Confussion"...well get over it!! 99% of the people I have chatted with in CLT,PIT and PHL , have been going on with just that concept/***umption. This is a No-Win situation...We aren't pitching a No-Hitter...but we can lose it all on an error. I say take the sacrifice to fly. Then we can work on getting the IAM out of our lives. DO NOT Confuse..or lump the two issues together again. I swear I hear the echo of Martin Shagrue's voice...and the commercials playing the sound of "The next 120 days at Eastern"....does anyone remember that ad campaigne , prior to the airline shutting down for good? I sure do!!!
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[/blockquote]
This is spoken in a way to suspect former utility seniority. The stock room clerks at UAL are hired off the street to prevent the work ethic from bleeding from one work group to another. This is a MAJOR problem at USAirways. The saying is as good as government. Job for life

 

[t-man]

A320 driver,
If I ever get a raise I'm gonna buy you a John Deere tractor to get your head out of your lower intestines.