Trouble in 777 Overhaul (China)

[WorldTraveler]

I didn't say the MROs would be held responsible if AA did not choose to pin the blame on them. Seatgate shows that AA was quite determined to blame everything possible to avoid admitting that the contractors were the problem.

I did say that the airline who operates the aircraft is responsible for the safety of its aircraft - and that is true whether AA does the work inhouse or contracts it out to someone on the other side of the planet.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

How are those heavy coffee maker changes going? Change a few difficult reading lights before bedding down? Rough man, you got it rough out there in SAN. A true hero.

It is obvious you have never worked line maintenance before.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Thank you for confirming that HAECO in HKG ....

...HKG is a highly developed location where employees make western salaries

Really? I would like to see the hard data supporting that talking point.

 

[FWAAA]

Really? I would like to see the hard data supporting that talking point.

You want data to prove that wages in Hong Kong are first-world? If you've visited there, and talked wages with people there, you'll find that wages are similar to US wages.

Per capita GDP in Hong Kong at $49,400 (10th highest in the world) on a purchasing power parity basis is just slightly ahead of the USA ($48,300, 11th highest in the world), according to the CIA Factbook.

If you want proof that aircraft maintenance technicians in Hong Kong enjoy the same standard of living as their USA counterparts, that's not so easy to locate. What is easier to prove is that HKG AMTs at HAECO earn several multiples of their mainland China counterparts. Almost 20 years ago, HAECO said that it was opening the TAECO facility in Xiamen to take advantage of labor costs that were only about 10% of the HKG labor costs:

http://www.scmp.com/article/25480/high-cost-hk-inflation

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

It is obvious you have never worked line maintenance before.

No he hasn't. He is spiteful and fears the membership wanting a craft, democratic union.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

You want data to prove that wages in Hong Kong are first-world? If you've visited there, and talked wages with people there, you'll find that wages are similar to US wages.

I have not visited there.

If the wages are similar to US wages, why overhaul the aircraft there, when the capacity exists here?

 

[FWAAA]

I have not visited there.

If the wages are similar to US wages, why overhaul the aircraft there, when the capacity exists here?

Perhaps there aren't enough people here willing to do the work for the same cost? Here in the US, wage rates for non-airline MROs are in the $25/hr range and they're hurting as the Timcos and AARs can't fill all their openings at those low wages. Airlines tend to pay about $35/hr (AA and other low-wage airlines) up to about $50/hr (UPS) plus benefits. Of course, recent news stories say that even HAECO in HKG may find it difficult to add enough bodies unless it raises pay. That will eventually cause the work to gravitate to even lower-wage mainland China, Malaysia, Phillipines, etc.

 

[Bob Owens]

Perhaps there aren't enough people here willing to do the work for the same cost? Here in the US, wage rates for non-airline MROs are in the $25/hr range and they're hurting as the Timcos and AARs can't fill all their openings at those low wages. Airlines tend to pay about $35/hr (AA and other low-wage airlines) up to about $50/hr (UPS) plus benefits. Of course, recent news stories say that even HAECO in HKG may find it difficult to add enough bodies unless it raises pay. That will eventually cause the work to gravitate to even lower-wage mainland China, Malaysia, Phillipines, etc.

If the work will eventually go to mainland China, Malaysia, Philippines etc in search of lower wages then why aren't they going there now?

 

[Bob Owens]

You want data to prove that wages in Hong Kong are first-world? If you've visited there, and talked wages with people there, you'll find that wages are similar to US wages.

Per capita GDP in Hong Kong at $49,400 (10th highest in the world) on a purchasing power parity basis is just slightly ahead of the USA ($48,300, 11th highest in the world), according to the CIA Factbook.

If you want proof that aircraft maintenance technicians in Hong Kong enjoy the same standard of living as their USA counterparts, that's not so easy to locate. What is easier to prove is that HKG AMTs at HAECO earn several multiples of their mainland China counterparts. Almost 20 years ago, HAECO said that it was opening the TAECO facility in Xiamen to take advantage of labor costs that were only about 10% of the HKG labor costs:

http://www.scmp.com/article/25480/high-cost-hk-inflation

Hmm, didn't we have an exchange a while back about the wages there?

 

[eolesen]

If the wages are similar to US wages, why overhaul the aircraft there, when the capacity exists here?

Wages aren't the only issue at hand. Start looking at all of the over-regulation you find in opening up or operating any business in the US, and it quickly becomes obvious why job creation is flat lined. MRO is no different than what we're seeing in other industries.

 

[Bob Owens]

Fair enough. Of course there are independent labor unions in Hong Kong (which is a part of China). While mainland China permits "trade unions," they're more impotent than even the TWU, as they are controlled by the Communist Party.

To be clear, workers in Hong Kong can actually negotiate and strike if they want (like unionized workers here). Mainland Chinese enjoy none of those rights.

Sounds to me like we are treated more like the workers in mainland China than Hong Kong.

 

[Bob Owens]

Wages aren't the only issue at hand. Start looking at all of the over-regulation you find in opening up or operating any business in the US, and it quickly becomes obvious why job creation is flat lined. MRO is no different than what we're seeing in other industries.

So in other words they do it over there because they can get away with things they cant get away with here. Nice. Have a nice flight!!

 

[737823]

Sounds to me like we are treated more like the workers in mainland China than Hong Kong.

You've got to be kidding. What makes you say that? The fact that the RLA forbids you from striking upon abrogation due to the NWA AFA 2007 judgement? You have no idea, it's outrageous for you to make a claim like that. Go look at the working conditions, wages, benefits, and rights afforded to workers in mainland China it's nothing like the United States.

Josh

 

[Bob Owens]

You've got to be kidding. What makes you say that? The fact that the RLA forbids you from striking upon abrogation due to the NWA AFA 2007 judgement? You have no idea, it's outrageous for you to make a claim like that. Go look at the working conditions, wages, benefits, and rights afforded to workers in mainland China it's nothing like the United States.

Josh

Been there twice.

Workers all over the world are allowed to strike, even Airline workers. Airline Unions are the only workers in this country where Unions can not strike even after the company unilaterally changes pay rates and working condistions, the NMB has become a Joke when they string workers along for years before releasing them to a process where if the government chooses they can send us to Arbitration and avoid any disruptions. Why the delay? Because it forces airline workers to accept pay cuts through inflation. Airline unions all over the world are allowed to strike, only in America are Airline workers put in such a position. The US ranks with countries like China and Afghanistan as far as workers rights. Even here in New York government beurocrats with rich friends in the medical field threaten to imprison nurses if they quit and basically force them to work under terms they did not agree to.

I've been to China, and as bad as we have always been told it was whats scary is how we are moving towards them faster than they are moving towards us.

http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0

“Because I made a $1,500 contribution to Tom Spota four years before, does that mean that I’m disenfranchised from seeking the help of an elected official?” Mr. Fensterman asked.

But in a strongly worded ruling, a state appeals court, the Appellate Division in Brooklyn, has barred District Attorney Thomas J. Spota from prosecuting the nurses. The court said that he joined with their employers in forcing them into “involuntary servitude” by using criminal sanction to require them to work against their will, thus violating the nurses’ constitutional rights under the 13th Amendment.
The Jan. 13 ruling also said the district attorney violated the First Amendment rights of the lawyer who advised the nurses by prosecuting him for conspiracy.

http://www.correntewire.com/why_patients_need_nurses_unions

 

[737823]

Bob you have no clue. Seriously China and Afghanistan is what you equate workers rights in the US to? What do you want, for us to be like France or Italy with strikes and scheduled work stoppages all the time? Did you see Iberia workers are going on strike before the Christmas holiday? How supportive do you think the thousands of travelers for whom they disrupt their plans, cost them large amounts of money on hotels, new flight booking, forfeited deposits on cruises, tours, etc at their destination? What about all the people who won't be with their family for the Christmas holiday?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/29/uk-iberia-strikes-idUSLNE8AS01T20121129


The RLA exists because an airline strike would have far reaching effects on the US economy, transportation system, and interstate commerce, it does NOT exist with the intent of restricting workers' rights. Besides you've posted before that if new terms were imposed you supported a wildcat strike so why are you so hung up about the RLA?

Josh