TWU Screw is about to be implemented

[TWU informer]

Does anyone know if the RIF numbers take into consideration of the early outs?
Do they include the early outs? The sign up window is still open. Are these numbers based on estimates of early outs? Too vague or not enough info to determine if these are the exact numbers.

The numbers are phase one total headcount reductions.
Every "Early out" or "SIS" will count as one head reduced, then the balance will be by RIF.

Total Early Out sign-ups as of yesterday was reported to be 463 system wide

 

[1AA]

So theoretically if enough guys leave the RIF's could be reduced to nothing.
I looked for this info on the Powerpoint presentation but was unable to find anything. Unless I missed it. Getting old really sucks these days. Next time I will wear my $5 Walmart reading glasses. Thanks for the info. We will see how it all pans out in the coming months. I just hope that if anyone hits the streets or bumps into a station is done by seniority and not some back door deal.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Does anyone know if the RIF numbers take into consideration of the early outs?
Do they include the early outs? The sign up window is still open. Are these numbers based on estimates of early outs? Too vague or not enough info to determine if these are the exact numbers.

This is a forecast business model for 2013 dated September 7, 2012 that doesn't appear to take into consideration the early outs since that window is still open. I'm sure it will change, since the fine print at the bottom of the cover page does not recognize it as the official business plan, but Informer has to have something to spin...

 

[TWU informer]

So theoretically if enough guys leave the RIF's could be reduced to nothing.
I looked for this info on the Powerpoint presentation but was unable to find anything. Unless I missed it. Getting old really sucks these days. Next time I will wear my $5 Walmart reading glasses. Thanks for the info. We will see how it all pans out in the coming months. I just hope that if anyone hits the streets or bumps into a station is done by seniority and not some back door deal.

Well there is no way the volunteers will prevent a RIF.

AFW is closing and headcount movement will require a RIF to still take place.
But the headcount reduction numbers at each location "except for AFW" will be altered by early outs.

RIF's will take place regardless of early outs.

 

[TWU informer]

This is a forecast business model for 2013 dated September 7, 2012 that doesn't appear to take into consideration the early outs since that window is still open. I'm sure it will change, since the fine print at the bottom of the cover page does not recognize it as the official business plan, but Informer has to have something to spin...

Yep, now it is AMFA's and Informers fault.

Not spining anything STOOGE!

This is AA facts and the TWU agreed to it. That will not change no matter how hard you try to bury it into the sand next to your head.

 

[jacfrost]

Those early out numbers are very low but there are a few more weeks to go. I am starting to think the early outs are not going to be the savior we have been hoping for.

 

[TWU informer]

Those early out numbers are very low but there are a few more weeks to go. I am starting to think the early outs are not going to be the savior we have been hoping for.

The numbers for the Early out and SIS would be higher if AA would allow the employee to choose the exit date between now and Sept 2013.

But of course the TWU allows management to control all aspects of everything in our lives.

What amazes me is the number of 45 yr old 20+ seniority AMT's taking the money and leaving AA.
The sing-ups are not all guys that were ready to retire anyway.

They have just started the end of Tulsa, because the TWU will demand the upgrade of more unskilled relatives to attempt to replace these highly skilled professionals. The TWU leader thinks more like a bean counter, than an advocate for the profession.

 

[Frank Szabo]

The numbers are phase one total headcount reductions.
Every "Early out" or "SIS" will count as one head reduced, then the balance will be by RIF.

Total Early Out sign-ups as of yesterday was reported to be 463 system wide

As many others, I need to know what my "last day worked" would be should I sign on the dotted line. Working a few more years 'til Medicare eligibility is a necessity (and perhaps even longer as I like my trade) and even though there are local positions in trade paying quite well (and I expect there to be for quite some time), it's difficult to walk into an interview and say you want to hire on but can't really afford it due to the money being left on the table at AA. I'm afraid I'll have that very situation to deal with on Friday - and it sounded so good.

Even though there is an upgrade list of capable people and there are others that will be staying who are equally as qualified (they passed the friggin' test - right?), we're being told the machine trades will be held in service for quite a while.

Why not just have the A&Ps come into the machine shops and do our jobs? We've been being sent out to do their work for the last 22 years I'm aware of - surely, if they can pass a test, they can easily do machine work - probably better than the machinists since they hold the coveted All&Purpose Licenses - right? That's what the qualifying tests were all about - right? So what if a few hundred holes are misdrilled - happens all the time. The mechanics will just get to fix their own errors instead of calling out someone else whilst they take a break.

$38k isn't a helluva lot of money to leave one's job and when you consider a taker would only net about half of that, $18-$19k isn't really enough to allow the company to hold you hostage 'til they're done with you.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Yep, now it is AMFA's and Informers fault.

Not spining anything STOOGE!

This is AA facts and the TWU agreed to it. That will not change no matter how hard you try to bury it into the sand next to your head.

I don't see where its stated as FACTS. Could you please point that out as you continue to play the part of a STOOGE spinning a non official 2013 business forecast. Not trying to say myself that some of the content especially the 2012 part of it may come true but it is still subject to change. Keep your panties on Informer...

 

[TWU informer]

I don't see where its stated as FACTS. Could you please point that out as you continue to play the part of a STOOGE spinning a non official 2013 business forecast. Not trying to say myself that some of the content especially the 2012 part of it may come true but it is still subject to change. Keep your panties on Informer...

"HERE is a summary of American Airlines M&E Restructuring Plan. This comes from the TWU AA/AE Bankruptcy Information website.."

If you have more solid "facts" then post them and stop whimpering.
If you can prove anything I have stated is "spin" then dispute my opinion with you proof.

Of course it can change, and I bet you still think it will "Get Better" not worse. Of course it will.

When we were about to VOTE on this T/A you sure seem to be sure of the headcount numbers then, are you saying we were duped again, and nobody still knows the truth?

 

[Frank Szabo]

So theoretically if enough guys leave the RIF's could be reduced to nothing.
I looked for this info on the Powerpoint presentation but was unable to find anything. Unless I missed it. Getting old really sucks these days. Next time I will wear my $5 Walmart reading glasses. Thanks for the info. We will see how it all pans out in the coming months. I just hope that if anyone hits the streets or bumps into a station is done by seniority and not some back door deal.

"Theoretically", indeed!

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:9458]

 

[High Speed Steel]

I obtained this from the TWU Local 514 website.

And that website says

"HERE is a summary of American Airlines M&E Restructuring Plan. This comes from the TWU AA/AE Bankruptcy Information website.."

If you more solid "facts" then post them and stop whimpering.

Of course it can change, and I bet you still think it will "Get Better" not worse. Of course it will.

When we were about to VOTE on this T/A you sure seem to be sure of the headcount numbers then, are you saying we were duped again, and nobody still knows the truth?

I know where you found the report the same place I read it yesterday at 514. It is informative but still yet not official, I just don't give it as much weight as you are wanting it to provide. But if you wanna spin it have fun... 🙄

 

[TWU informer]

I know where you found the report the same place I read it yesterday at 514. It is informative but still yet not official, I just don't give it as much weight as you are wanting it to provide. But if you wanna spin it have fun... 🙄

I guess until you actual feel the corn cob in your excrement orifice, you will still be in Kansas Toto? Fair enough I will over here for you.

As far I am concerned, we can all pay no attention to the man behind the curtain now instead of waiting.

I just go back to what Ream said here in Tulsa.

Three rounds of cuts.
First is known headcount reductions but not know how many be will from volunteers.
Second, unkown headcount number due to work rule changes and productivity improvements.
Third, unknown headcount number due to new aircraft arrival and grounding of older aircraft

That was his answer to question about why "job security" was eliminated.
Do you think he was telling lies?

 

[AANOTOK]

Sam cerri the bag smasher told people in his base tour that apx 100 people In tul had left AA so far this year and they would reduce the head count numbers by that much, but low and behold they increased the numbers if not so sad it would be so funny

Hey iluvaa, have you seen Sam doing his Fleet Service job and really smashing bags, or is that your opinion of all Fleet service clerks? Just curious!

 

[Bob Owens]

The numbers for the Early out and SIS would be higher if AA would allow the employee to choose the exit date between now and Sept 2013.

But of course the TWU allows management to control all aspects of everything in our lives.

What amazes me is the number of 45 yr old 20+ seniority AMT's taking the money and leaving AA.
The sing-ups are not all guys that were ready to retire anyway.

They have just started the end of Tulsa, because the TWU will demand the upgrade of more unskilled relatives to attempt to replace these highly skilled professionals. The TWU leader thinks more like a bean counter, than an advocate for the profession.

The loss of retiree medical is whats keeping the older guys from leaving. Whats left of the $40k after taxes wont even cover what the company wants to charge a member and his wife to bring them to Medicare if either is 62 or younger. They didnt offer enough. The incentive will take out those who are still young enough to start new careers and/or have wives with Medical benefits from their jobs and old enough to get it. My guess is mostly those 65 and older and under 50 will make up the majority. Most of those Under 45 are looking to get out as well even without the $40K. This, along with the RIFs will help drive the average age at AA even higher. Young workers, if AA ever gets through their recall list, will see AA's one week of vacation for the first five years, vs at least two everywhere else, one week of sick time, vs at least 10days everywhere else, and 5 holidays at half pay, what comes out to 20 hours a year in extra pay for working all the Holidays vs at least 100 hours extra pay at pretty much everywhere else and then on top of all that see our miserable pay and say "no thank you".

The Older workers who remain will simply get to the point where they dont want the OT either.

Who knows maybe HSS is right, this isnt official. Maybe there will be relocations only and nobody hits the streets. Then of course he would spin this, claim victory and say how they saved jobs because so many volunteered to leave (because they made the job so crappy) that they didnt have to put anyone on the street (and conviently leave out the fact there are 1700 less of us, that we will have less mechanics than UAL/CO and we make around $20k less a year than they do and have do not have any furlough protection, not even Al Blackman (technically). We've seen plans before, such as back in in 2009 with the "White Spaces" dock plan, where the company claimed that if they could not generate enough 3P work to fill all the White Spaces in the dock plan they would need to cut 1200 heads from Overhaul by 2012, and the only way for them to generate that 3P work is if they could bid low with low labor costs-concessions, from us. When we didnt buy that a few months later they came up with a new plan, all the white spaces in OH were gone till 2015 without the 3P work and they needed changes on the line.Turns out they are looking to cut 1700 heads but not because of "white spaces" but outsourcing instead and the only thing stopping them from outsorcing a lot more is capacity (and costs) in the MRO world.

So in this case I would agree with HSS and take this "plan" for what it is, no more certain or creditable than the "White Spaces" plan that never materialized either. The only thing that is certain is more young people are looking to abandon this ship than I've ever seen before.

They should just add the AA Logo to that Aleve Commercial, this is going to be a place full of old men. Sure they may start trying to bring school kids in but we will make sure they know they still have time to pursue another career, unless they want to end up like us.

Sure sounds like a plan for success to me!!