UA shipping 747-400's to Arizona and California Desert

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AA191

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Sep 17, 2002
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We understand that UA has planned, or is already in the process of, moving the majority of its 747-400 fleet into the desert. The 777 can do the polar route but not in the winter due to the fuel freezing situation and mach speeds VS the 747-400.
Is this parking thing really happening?
If so, how many 400''s are going to the heat?
 
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On 11/6/2002 1:37:18 PM AA191 wrote:

We understand that UA has planned, or is already in the process of, moving the majority of its 747-400 fleet into the desert. The 777 can do the polar route but not in the winter due to the fuel freezing situation and mach speeds VS the 747-400.

Is this parking thing really happening?
If so, how many 400's are going to the heat?

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Depends, some nu8mbers as high as 24 (of 44). Currently our WB numbers don't match WB flying. The company is flying the 400s up until they require a D check. It's much cheaper to fly the heck out of the 777s and the remaining 400s than to keep all the 400s on line and not max them out. The jets will still be there though, and as soon as things turn around, will likely be pulled back out. As for the polar flying, the 400s are capable of a higher Mach speed which increases the TAT (total air temp) which keeps the fuel warmer. When the fuel temp gets too low the 400 just speeds up some, whereas the &&& can't due to a lower MMo.
 
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On 11/6/2002 8:48:10 PM Steiner wrote:

How about selling the 400s and all of the late model JT-9s to Northwest?
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Don't let NWA fool you, they aren't in a big airplane buying mood. A NWA 400 buddy of mine says some of our 400s were original NWA orders. Would we sell some to LH? Maybe, but I'd bet we'd chop them in half before we sold them cheap to NWA.
 
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On 11/6/2002 9:08:19 PM Busdrvr wrote:

Maybe, but I'd bet we'd chop them in half before we sold them cheap to NWA.
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Didn't we sell NWA a bunch of 747 classics for cheap when we retired them? Or was it the DC-10Fs?
I can't remember anymore; I seem to recall that whatever they bought from us were used on those 'unprofitable' far east cargo routes that we abandoned.
 
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On 11/6/2002 9:36:04 PM iflyjetz wrote:


Didn't we sell NWA a bunch of 747 classics for cheap when we retired them? Or was it the DC-10Fs?
I can't remember anymore; I seem to recall that whatever they bought from us were used on those 'unprofitable' far east cargo routes that we abandoned.
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The 10's, some still in UAL colors, now fly for Fed Ex, except for one that is still for sale. NWA is in the process of retiring the 10's themselves (I think). As for the -200s, I think part of the deal was that they wouldn't use them for Pax service.
 
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On 11/6/2002 10:31:50 PM mga707 wrote:

Only the -40s (their original ones). The -30s (which were picked up second-hand) soldier on, for now.

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Sad, you're retiring the -40s?! Aren't they the ones with that P&W Reliable Power instead of those nifty self disasembling CF-6's?
 
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On 11/6/2002 10:06:24 PM Busdrvr wrote:

NWA is in the process of retiring the 10's themselves (I think).
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Only the -40s (their original ones). The -30s (which were picked up second-hand) soldier on, for now.
 
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On 11/6/2002 10:45:39 PM Busdrvr wrote:

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On 11/6/2002 10:31:50 PM mga707 wrote:

Only the -40s (their original ones). The -30s (which were picked up second-hand) soldier on, for now.

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Sad, you're retiring the -40s?! Aren't they the ones with that P&W "Reliable Power" instead of those nifty self disasembling CF-6's?
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Yep, those are the ones...although I'm not the one personally responsible for retiring them!
 
We have had numerous B744's in long-term storage in MHV that began after 9/11. Considering that it's the most costly aircraft in our fleet, and also considering that in this environment, there are few markets that can be profitably filled with 747's, it makes sense that we'd look to ground as many of those as we can. But the fact that we're putting them into storage in the desert is certainly not news.

As for selling the B744's to NW or another carrier, I'd be extremely surprised if any airline is looking to add a sizeable amount of B744's to their fleet considering the lousy environment we're in and the high degree of probability that we'll be going to war with Iraq in a couple of months.
 
There are two 747-451s in the United 747-400 fleet... as the customer code suggests, these aircraft were originally intended for NW, who could not afford them at the time. United got a sweetheart deal on them. The only differences between these aircraft and the -422s, cosmetically, are different colored jumpseats.

United sold the 7 747-222s and 2 747-238Bs (ex QANTAS) it retired ca. 2000 to Northwest Cargo.
 
Could some of the 744's be converted temporarily into a 2 class Hawaii configuration for all those FF awards going to Honolulu? If we need more 777 for Europe or Asia, even the early low weight 777 can fly from the east coast to Europe. Those low weight 777's are flying to Hawaii in domestic configurations. Flyimg some of the 744 from ORD to LAX & SFO is also an option. How about Lax and SFO to IAD, BOS or JFK? I think transcon is an option if 767 or 777 are better used int'l. Transcon has always been the place where the biggest planes are used. 744's could also be used to SJU from ORD or JFK(AA territory).

There are uses for these huge birds, if you really think about it.
 
Part of the deal to sell NWA the parked 747-200's was that they only be used on the cargo flights. I remeber hearing that their is a not to be used against us provision.
 
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