OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #16
...further highlighting the divisions at UA years after the merger
Unbelievable what is happening to UA
Unbelievable what is happening to UA
UA to furlough FAs
- Thread starter WorldTraveler
- Start date
AND, hello, does the agreement affect workers at CAL or UAL in any negative way possible? If so, it is a bad agreement. From what I have read they will retain their seniority for pay, but will not for job bidding and vac etc...
OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #20
what is unbelievable is that you have to be laid off from one subsidiary of a company to be rehired at another side.700UW said:
sorry but most people see that as a failure of mgmt and unions.
The UA merger is now years old and we still see things like this that say it is far from being United Airlines but rather Divided Airlines.
And the US/HP merger took over eight years for the FAs to be combined and the Pilots still arent.
So go tell those UA FAs, sorry you are going to get laid off and yet there are jobs at your sister company and you cant have them, too bad so sorry.
They still get their pay, their benefits, but bid as a new hire, until the company and the union achieve a JCBA.
So you would rather see someone get laid off then to have a job?
Go back to Brazil, and you claim to be a man of God.
The same thing is happening for maintnenance at UA/CO but they arent getting jobs offered to them at CO.
So go tell those UA FAs, sorry you are going to get laid off and yet there are jobs at your sister company and you cant have them, too bad so sorry.
They still get their pay, their benefits, but bid as a new hire, until the company and the union achieve a JCBA.
So you would rather see someone get laid off then to have a job?
Go back to Brazil, and you claim to be a man of God.
The same thing is happening for maintnenance at UA/CO but they arent getting jobs offered to them at CO.
OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #22
you truly are dense aren't you? and once again, you can't debate a topic without turning it into a personal pissing contest and bringing up outside interests.
and you count US/HP as an example of how things are SUPPOSED to work? most consider the perfect case of airline mgmt playing unions against each other - to mgmt's benefit.
can you tell us what union your employees are represented by?
why should anyone get laid off PERIOD only to be given the option to be rehired by a subsidiary of the same oompany?
The whole notion that UA needs to lay off anyone is a joke if they are hiring at sCO, which they are.
,
UA is dividing its workforce years into the merger and playing one union against the other.
with dozens of sUA 757s leaving the fleet, it will only get worse....
THAT is sad no matter what you want to call it.
The fact that you can't seem to get it while trolling these boards highlights again why unions have failed and you represent the worst reasons why.
but hey, it's just me who sees the real nature of what is going on.. or else I write professionally.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-23/with-flight-attendant-fight-united-continental-merger-looks-far-from-finished?campaign_id=yhoo
Clarke, the union spokesman, says a single contract would obviate the need for the annual attendant furloughs. “If it was a good idea in 2010, do it, finish the merger,” he says. “Fix it that way.”
and you count US/HP as an example of how things are SUPPOSED to work? most consider the perfect case of airline mgmt playing unions against each other - to mgmt's benefit.
can you tell us what union your employees are represented by?
why should anyone get laid off PERIOD only to be given the option to be rehired by a subsidiary of the same oompany?
The whole notion that UA needs to lay off anyone is a joke if they are hiring at sCO, which they are.
,
UA is dividing its workforce years into the merger and playing one union against the other.
with dozens of sUA 757s leaving the fleet, it will only get worse....
THAT is sad no matter what you want to call it.
The fact that you can't seem to get it while trolling these boards highlights again why unions have failed and you represent the worst reasons why.
but hey, it's just me who sees the real nature of what is going on.. or else I write professionally.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-23/with-flight-attendant-fight-united-continental-merger-looks-far-from-finished?campaign_id=yhoo
Clarke, the union spokesman, says a single contract would obviate the need for the annual attendant furloughs. “If it was a good idea in 2010, do it, finish the merger,” he says. “Fix it that way.”
Practice what you preach.
Apparently you dont comprehend the bible, you know the book you claim to follow and promote.
Delta has and is laying off employees, go to MEM, go to DTW, go to MSP, go to CVG, go to DFW, go to TPA, shall I continue?
How many years is it after the merger and DL is laying off and cutting employees also?
Oh thats right, what Delta does is golden and if another airline does it, it's bad business.
Apparently you dont comprehend the bible, you know the book you claim to follow and promote.
Delta has and is laying off employees, go to MEM, go to DTW, go to MSP, go to CVG, go to DFW, go to TPA, shall I continue?
How many years is it after the merger and DL is laying off and cutting employees also?
Oh thats right, what Delta does is golden and if another airline does it, it's bad business.
OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #24
this is not a site about religion. If anyone wants to debate religion, there are plenty of places to do so.
It is a site about aviation.
Learn to debate the topic.
This thread is about UA playing its 2 FA unions and ultimately its employees against each other. DL has done no such thing.
You defend it as acceptable while everyone else recognizes it is a disaster. HP/US is the poster child of low employee pay because of union strife which prevented a joint contract - but you can't possibly see that, can you?
what UA mgmt is doing is precisely why airline mergers are messy and labor integration is one of the most problematic parts of the merger process.
and again, let us know what unions represent the employees your company hires. since you want to throw personal information in the discussion.
It is a site about aviation.
Learn to debate the topic.
This thread is about UA playing its 2 FA unions and ultimately its employees against each other. DL has done no such thing.
You defend it as acceptable while everyone else recognizes it is a disaster. HP/US is the poster child of low employee pay because of union strife which prevented a joint contract - but you can't possibly see that, can you?
what UA mgmt is doing is precisely why airline mergers are messy and labor integration is one of the most problematic parts of the merger process.
and again, let us know what unions represent the employees your company hires. since you want to throw personal information in the discussion.
Once again, better go educate yourself.
The flight attendants at PMCO and PMUA are both represented by ONE union, the AFA.
The PMCO FAs, got a new CBA last year, and both UA and the AFA are in negotiations for a JCBA.
Once again, educate yourself, both East and West Mechanic and Related, and both East and West Fleet Service have been under a JCBA since 2008 and both groups are in Section 6 negotiations, you do understand the concept that it takes two sides to reach an agreement?
Both East and West CSA and RES are and have been working under the same CBA for years.
The FAs just ratified a JCBA last year, and the pilots actually ratified an MOU to all fall under one CBA.
All groups have gotten raises since 2008 and the years following.
US was the fifth largest airline out of all the majors.
And how come Delta's mechanics are near the bottom of the pay scale in the industry?
Why are contract mechanics working along slide of Delta mechanics at TOC?
Delta is laying off in MEM and DTW, yet you avoid that DL has and is still laying off people many years after the merger.
At least at UA and CO, they have a place to go, just like when the West pilots got laid off they had the opportunity to go to the East operation.
The flight attendants at PMCO and PMUA are both represented by ONE union, the AFA.
The PMCO FAs, got a new CBA last year, and both UA and the AFA are in negotiations for a JCBA.
Once again, educate yourself, both East and West Mechanic and Related, and both East and West Fleet Service have been under a JCBA since 2008 and both groups are in Section 6 negotiations, you do understand the concept that it takes two sides to reach an agreement?
Both East and West CSA and RES are and have been working under the same CBA for years.
The FAs just ratified a JCBA last year, and the pilots actually ratified an MOU to all fall under one CBA.
All groups have gotten raises since 2008 and the years following.
US was the fifth largest airline out of all the majors.
And how come Delta's mechanics are near the bottom of the pay scale in the industry?
Why are contract mechanics working along slide of Delta mechanics at TOC?
Delta is laying off in MEM and DTW, yet you avoid that DL has and is still laying off people many years after the merger.
At least at UA and CO, they have a place to go, just like when the West pilots got laid off they had the opportunity to go to the East operation.
OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #26
focus on the topic.
and UA and WN are outsourcing employee jobs and AA and US will most certainly be cutting jobs.
The issue is not continually changing business models which require airlines to move their operations and ask employees to move to.
US/HP played one union against another for years to the detriment of its employees. It's not your paycheck at stake since you walked away from US - but a whole lot of US/HP employees can clearly see that US has won the labor squabbles at the cost of its own employees.
Everyone against you.
It doesn't matter what union each side has.
UA mgmt is laying off sUA FAs and the only way they can retain their jobs is to be rehired by sUA.
You clearly are so wedded to the union cause that you see that as a win - but no one else with any kind of business sense does.
and UA and WN are outsourcing employee jobs and AA and US will most certainly be cutting jobs.
The issue is not continually changing business models which require airlines to move their operations and ask employees to move to.
US/HP played one union against another for years to the detriment of its employees. It's not your paycheck at stake since you walked away from US - but a whole lot of US/HP employees can clearly see that US has won the labor squabbles at the cost of its own employees.
Everyone against you.
It doesn't matter what union each side has.
UA mgmt is laying off sUA FAs and the only way they can retain their jobs is to be rehired by sUA.
You clearly are so wedded to the union cause that you see that as a win - but no one else with any kind of business sense does.
Kev3188
Veteran
Only because there weren't 2 F/A unions on the property.WorldTraveler said:
But to deny that each group wasn't pitted against each other is at best revisionist history.
OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #29
help us out, Kev.
where were PMNW employees jobs cut so they could be rehired at a different pay scale or with different seniority or benefits?
You are aware that CVG was downsized just as much as MEM was? You are aware that DL has growth DTW int'l flights using PMDL aircraft but they were staffed by employees from DTW except for the pilots who agreed to their own fence which has PMNW pilots flying 744s from ATL and PMDL pilots flying 777s from DTW.
Tell us Kev where the "pit" came from.
where were PMNW employees jobs cut so they could be rehired at a different pay scale or with different seniority or benefits?
You are aware that CVG was downsized just as much as MEM was? You are aware that DL has growth DTW int'l flights using PMDL aircraft but they were staffed by employees from DTW except for the pilots who agreed to their own fence which has PMNW pilots flying 744s from ATL and PMDL pilots flying 777s from DTW.
Tell us Kev where the "pit" came from.
Kev3188
Veteran
Show us how you arrived at the conclusion that the PM F/A groups at DL were never pitted against one another. Be specific.
