UAL takes advertising aim at Southwest

[KCFlyer]

KC you spout alot of BS. Here is your chance to produce the document that says UAL has a reorganizatin plan at $50 a bbl. I will give you some help. Go back to the the WSJ from 2 weeks ago today. Read the article on UAL reorg and you will see that oil up to $67 is accounted for in the plan. You and your lies are typical of someone that can not prove a point so you resort to lies. Well here is your chance to prove you are not full of crap.

Now you want to discuss the NTSB?

Tell you what...when (not if) you are approched for more concessions, will you not only give up pay, but give up these boards as well? Because while you express great pride in undercutting LCC fares, how long can UAL afford to operate like that? Southwest charges more than UAL. Southwest also makes more profits than UAL. Think there might be something to that strategy?

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

What does it feel like to be on the same side with me? Pretty weird huh? Hey it was NEVER personal. OK?????

Bob:

I can't answer for KC (he and I agree on many things, religion and politics being a couple of notable exceptions) but I can tell you that I never took your comments personally.

I just felt you were exercising your constitutionally protected right to be wrong.

I wasn't quite sure it was actually YOU posting this stuff at first. I liken it to a deathbed conversion, so to speak.

I can tell you what is eventually going to happen. You don't have to agree. What will happen.....is that sooner or later, you are going to need to get someplace on business really badly...and USAirways will be full or the flight will get cancelled or something will go terribly wrong.

And the folks with the blue and/or desert gold 737s will have a flight going where you need to go, when you need to go there, and you will succumb to the temptation out of desperation.

And you will take our advice and check in on line for the much coveted boarding group "A"light and you will get on the flight and choose a nice leather seat and the Flight Attendants will be pleasant and cordial and will offer drink refills but they won;t try standup comedy and you will say to yourself "why didn't someody tell me it was like this?"

Tell ya what I'll do.....when I get back from the Middle East I will dig around in the desk drawer and send you a booklet of drink coupons you can use for this eventuality.

The same offer holds true for Art, too.

KC and I are living proof that it is possible to fly Southwest on business and not die.

In fact, I have ridden them on a 5 hr 15 min nonstop and other than giving my kidneys a thorough workout processing about 82 Dr Peppers consumed while in flight all was well.

 

[WNjetdoc]

Walmart claims to be the "low price leader" SWA makes similar claims. If you wish to research the issue on WM you can look up www.pbs.org and order "Wal-Mart, Is it good for America?" The very basis of the two companies is very close. SWA claims to have the lowest fares but it is a bit of a bait. They may have the lowest fare for a couple of seats but after that they are at or above the price of the others. Wal-Mart will have a inexpensive product in the aisle. They will then have the higher priced models nearby that are priced above competitors prices. SWA attempts to be a homey company but they are as brutal as the rest. Watch your own tv show to see how similar you are to the rest.

Its hard to believe you have posted yet another mis-information masterpiece dude.

Since you're an expert at finding out information about companies can you post where SWA claims to "have the lowest fares"? If you actually do some research you will see where SWA does claim to have, "cosistently low fares". Do you see the difference? Of course not, :blink: .

Walmarts products are something like 90% imported from China, again how is that like SWA? Where are 100% of SWA's a/c manufactured? Duhh, thats right, in AMERICA. Lets see, can UAL make the same claim? Duhh, oh yea, they have the Scarbus and you can throw in some BAE's, etc. That sounds like a real "homey" company, lol. Where are 100% of SWA's res. centers? Thats right in good ole USA, how about UAL and other airlines? Thats right, a good chunk of them are overseas somewhere. Call them up and you can't understand what the hell they are saying half the time...sick man, sick. I'd rather talk to someone in Indiana instead of India.

SWA can be "brutal", of course. We are like George Foreman, a real nice, big, cool guy out of the ring but step in the ring and he would smash your face into the backside of your head. I don't know if you're aware of it but its a "brutal" world out there pal. This is a multi-billion dollar company and you don't get there by being passive. SWA knows where and when to put on the charm and they know when to put on the gloves...thats what makes us great. Most airlines keep the gloves on all the time, bashing in the faces of their employees, passengers, everyone EXCEPT their corporate officers. So don't be a playa-hater, lol.

Go to www.Untied.com and find out the truth about UAL...there is some interesting info on this "homey" company there, . Finding bullets on a/c and hushing it up...good stuff there.

 

[KCFlyer]

Hey KC,

What does it feel like to be on the same side with me? Pretty weird huh? Hey it was NEVER personal. OK?????

I understand it never was personal...never took it that way either. We disagree somewhat on Southwest as a businessman's airline, but for a couple of years, I worked a job that had me in KC 3 days each week, and St. Louis for 2. Thrown in for good measure were monthly trips to Chicago or Denver. The beautiful thing was, I could head up to MCI, catch the morning flight to STL, meet my compatriot in STL, make the rounds with him, and catch the late afternoon flight back to MCI and be home for dinner. Didn't break the bank for my company either...and we were paying full fare. MCI-STL admittedly is a short flight...didn't need first class. But the planes were usually full, and everybody on the plane got served a drink and a snack during the 45 minutes we were airborne. Prior to SWA being in the market, to pull off that same trick would have cost the company $1,000 per week - because the last minute round trip fare was $500.

You mentioned in an earlier post that SWA's competition may well be the automobile. That's true...Herb himself has said that many times. That's why there are half hourly flights between DAL and HOU - a businessman (and there are LOTS of them on that route) can conduct a full day of business and be home that night. Can't do that in a car.

I personally don't shop at Walmart, for many of the same reasons that you choose not to. I don't live in a trailer. I am not "white trash", nor are any other members of my family. So I really resent the comparisons that are sometimes made of "trashy" clientel. I've met ELP a few times when he was in the KC area - had him over to the house. I can assure you that he isn't "trash" either.

As far as the skygod's comments that SWA is a fraud because they portray themselves as "always" having the lowest fare. Jetdoc pointed out, they NEVER said that - they said that they ALWAYS have low fares...and a fully refundable, unrestricted $299 one way transcon fare really DOES translate into "low fare" in my book.

And I think you and I have always agreed that, contrary to the views of some folks on these boards, the customer might not be a bad person to listen to for advice or input. We might not know the difference between an aileron and an elevator, but we sure as hell know the difference between a good and bad business practice. We see them every time we board a plane. And sometimes, we can point out some things that is easily overlooked by someone "in the industry". Especially the know it all skygod types.

 

[ngneer]

Here is your chance to produce the document that says UAL has a reorganizatin plan at $50 a bbl

From an article in USA Today titled Has United Changed Enough?: "United projects it will break even or turn a profit in 2006, but Baggaley forecasts a modest loss. United's business plan assumes $50-a-barrel oil prices, on average, ahead. S&P, by contrast, predicts $60 a barrel this year and $55 a barrel next year."

Has United Changed Enough?

 

[sastal]

From an article in USA Today titled Has United Changed Enough?: "United projects it will break even or turn a profit in 2006, but Baggaley forecasts a modest loss. United's business plan assumes $50-a-barrel oil prices, on average, ahead. S&P, by contrast, predicts $60 a barrel this year and $55 a barrel next year."

Has United Changed Enough?

No worries, if it doesn’t pan out, Tilton can always pillage what’s left of the UAL family. Besides, there are plenty of UAL folks on these boards who will be glad to bend over once again, so long as they can say, “I told you so.â€￾ :mf_boff:

 

[Ch. 12]

Walmart claims to be the "low price leader" SWA makes similar claims. If you wish to research the issue on WM you can look up www.pbs.org and order "Wal-Mart, Is it good for America?" The very basis of the two companies is very close. SWA claims to have the lowest fares but it is a bit of a bait. They may have the lowest fare for a couple of seats but after that they are at or above the price of the others. Wal-Mart will have a inexpensive product in the aisle. They will then have the higher priced models nearby that are priced above competitors prices. SWA attempts to be a homey company but they are as brutal as the rest. Watch your own tv show to see how similar you are to the rest.

I have to agree with WNjetdoc that you are stretching to reach an exaggerated conclusion that in no way reflects reality. You are correct about Wal-Mart...they do claim to have the "low, low prices everyday". Like WN, they do not claim to always be the cheapest and typically, the only things that are cheaper there are the little yellow smiley-face items at the endcaps of each row. Wal-Mart thrives by keeping costs down. The costs they keep down are wages...but much unlike WN which keeps wage costs down by keeping employees HAPPY AND PRODUCTIVE while paying them above industry rates, WalMart keeps wage costs down by under-paying employees and finding loopholes wherever possible to pay below what they should. They also force employees to work OT w/o pay AND the meager wages mean you and I pay for the welfare, Medicaid, and other social programs that supplement the bottom-end WalMart employees that are being screwed out of wages. Like WNjetdoc mentioned...WN DOES NOT claim to be the lowest fare so PLEASE...GET OFF THAT FALSIFIED ARGUMENT!!! WalMart also ensures that they purchase products at whatever price they wish. They have the clout to strong-arm suppliers into low costs and such tactics have forced strong companies such as Rubbermaid to go under. WN has no power of its costs other than doing a wise thing and hedging fuel. Hedging is not controlling the price but rather limiting risk. Get off your envious rants. You are nothing but a flame-baiter that makes up falsities in order to get a response. If you want to create your own case studies, at least know what you are talking about.

 

[WNjetdoc]

KC you spout alot of BS. Here is your chance to produce the document that says UAL has a reorganizatin plan at $50 a bbl. I will give you some help. Go back to the the WSJ from 2 weeks ago today. Read the article on UAL reorg and you will see that oil up to $67 is accounted for in the plan. You and your lies are typical of someone that can not prove a point so you resort to lies. Well here is your chance to prove you are not full of crap.

Now you want to discuss the NTSB?

***Why United Airlines will fail again***Joe Brancatelli***

There is a plethora of financial and operational reasons why the United Airlines that exits bankruptcy early next month will soon enough be back in Chapter 11 or desperately seeking a merger to keep itself afloat.
But United Airlines will fail again primarily because it has no organizational heart, no identity and no definable brand. Most of all, it has none of the vision and discipline that separates the winners from the losers in the deregulated skies.

Remainder of article and follow-on discussion posted here.

*For future reference: If you are referring to an article or post already posted in another forum/topic please supply a condensed blurb or highlight and then link to the original post. Thank you.

 

[magsau]

Angry employees? Hardly.

Badtelli is of dubious fame. He has been wrong on just about every prediction he has ever made. Glad you support him. Proves the SW people really are nuts and not in the good way.

30' of pad. with TR use. Absolutely amazing. Do you guys even go through a pilot training?

 

[tulswa]

Angry employees? Hardly.

Badtelli is of dubious fame. He has been wrong on just about every prediction he has ever made. Glad you support him. Proves the SW people really are nuts and not in the good way.

30' of pad. with TR use. Absolutely amazing. Do you guys even go through a pilot training?

I actually admire your dedication and loyalty to UAL. Any company facing the rocky road of bankruptcy needs that of its employees, probably more than favorable financing. It is a service industry, and if your employees are angry and don't buy into the plan, you are doomed.

Your baseless and uninformed statements regarding SWA employees totally discredits you, however. Your attempt to paint SWA as something that it is not just shows that your opinion is base upon your obvious hatred of SWA, rather than fact.

I sincerely hope that UAL makes it back and all employees are recalled.

 

[corl737]

Do you guys even go through a pilot training?

Magsau:

Please post your aviation credentials and let the members of this forum see what you bring to the table. If you want to be seen as an expert as opposed to a piece of excrement, let's see what you've got.

 

[WNjetdoc]

Magsau:

Please post your aviation credentials and let the members of this forum see what you bring to the table. If you want to be seen as an expert as opposed to a piece of excrement, let's see what you've got.

He,he,he..... .

Angry employees? Hardly.

Badtelli is of dubious fame. He has been wrong on just about every prediction he has ever made. Glad you support him. Proves the SW people really are nuts and not in the good way.

30' of pad. with TR use. Absolutely amazing. Do you guys even go through a pilot training?

Do you have a life moe-ron, or do you enjoy being a bb troll? The color of the sky in your world must be dark...very dark.

 

[corl737]

Magsau:

Please post your aviation credentials and let the members of this forum see what you bring to the table. If you want to be seen as an expert as opposed to a piece of excrement, let's see what you've got.

It's been 3 days, Magsau. I've seen many other postings you have made including starting additional topics so I know you've read the forums. We're still waiting for you to establish your credibility.

I respect your right to post whatever statements you want (within the guidelines of the forum rules). However, other than being a well-demonstrated flame-thrower, your status as a purveyor of useful information regarding the airline industry is, in my current opinion, quite suspect.

 

[magsau]

It's been 3 days, Magsau. I've seen many other postings you have made including starting additional topics so I know you've read the forums. We're still waiting for you to establish your credibility.

WE??? As far as my credentials go I have flown and am typed in more airplanes than a 737. Background is Mil/Civil, have owned GA airplanes and enjoy private flying outside of the airline flying. You want to know my sign? How about my favorite color?

 

[corl737]

WE??? As far as my credentials go I have flown and am typed in more airplanes than a 737. Background is Mil/Civil, have owned GA airplanes and enjoy private flying outside of the airline flying. You want to know my sign? How about my favorite color?

Thank you for your background info. We apparently have rather similar histories, each with multiple turbojet type ratings, both military and civilian experience, and as avid personal aviators. I will put more stock in the technical aspects of your statements knowing you are capable of understanding the issues at hand. We'll undoubtedly continue to debate the methodology of presenting those statements.