Union or Non Union

[LukeAisleWalker]

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It kills me KEV, to say(unfortunately) that with a combined DL/NW, that the total numbers are in the favor of a NO union for the AMT's and F/A's. At least you guys have a some what better than 50/50 chance of keeping things status quo.

Don't be so sure about the F/A's. Approx 50% of DL F/A's (6,000) have signed cards/are in favor of union representation. Does anyone know how many total NW F/A's there are?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Don't be so sure about the F/A's. Approx 50% of DL F/A's (6,000) have signed cards/are in favor of union representation. Does anyone know how many total NW F/A's there are?

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"Luke",

I've never wanted to be "So WRONG" as It pertains to the F/A's !!!!


AND, this needs to be said, .........AND needs to be HEEDED by EVERY NWA employee !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the "marriage" does become a reality, the "VERY SECOND" that you see/hear/suspect that RA/DS are FUDGING the NUMBERS of ANY work group, to ensure a NON -UNION work group......You MUST...WITHOUT QUESTION..........."STRIKE Northwest INSTANTLY, or you'll wind up like the AMT's !

For the ESE's....you should ALREADY, be putting the IAM on NOTICE, that you WILL NOT stand for any hesitancy on their part, as it pertains to an INTERGRATION.

(I hope I'm WRONG), BUT...I fully expect Anderson/Steenland to try and MIX..SWISSPORT..and/or...DGL...into the equation to determine a Union/NON Union ramp !!!!


Be VIGILANT...Red Tails, ............BE VERY VIGILANT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tigerbythetail]

As it has been said before this is not going to happen. The union are coming, the union are coming. It's all in the numbers. DL is a larger airline, while NW still employes more true mainline rampers to DL. Even with the bitter taste of the BK contract in our mouth, (till 2011), we know better than to "relax" and "trust that we have your best instrest in mind". How much kool-aid do you guys at DL drink a day. The DL managment has done nothing but rape the ramp over and over again and DL ramp does nothing to oganize and protect yourselves. Some may call me a "blowhard", others may post their sarcasm here with all their stupit icon faces(UALTECH), but the fact remains these fu*ks don't care about us or the stock holders. They are in it for themselves. We need to be in it to protect ourselves. Stop drinking the kool-aid and snap out of it DL.

I think this post is pretty much on target.

When the vote of DL/NW employees comes down, the ramp side votes will come in to retain the IAM, while the cust svc votes will likely not. I'd agree, it's all in the numbers, assuming such vote is done in craft only.

 

[signals]

From what I can see, even if there is a union it will be weaker and more inclined to slam the membership and sleep with management.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

From what I can see, even if there is a union it will be weaker and more inclined to slam the membership and sleep with management.

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Got to say I DISAGREE signals !

An..."MSP", and a "DTW",........Will TRUMP a "ATL" ANYDAY !!

 

[brokenwrench]

From what I can see, even if there is a union it will be weaker and more inclined to slam the membership and sleep with management.

Good point.
It will probably be so weak and willing to side with management that they may even be willing to have their members cross a legal picket line and God Forbid perform struck work!

Give me a break. The IAM is in business to support the IAM. The time to stop the concession madness has come and gone.

IMHO the DL rampers are better off putting there dues money in a K plan then give them to a company SCAB union like the IAM. Again, as I am not a ramper this just what I said, My Opinion.

Good luck to all. Get the fact and make an informed decision. A union is only as good as its members and leaders, and if the immediate past is an indicator. Unions at an airline are not very good at all.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Good point.
It will probably be so weak and willing to side with management that they may even be willing to have their members cross a legal picket line and God Forbid perform struck work!

Give me a break. The IAM is in business to support the IAM. The time to stop the concession madness has come and gone.

IMHO the DL rampers are better off putting there dues money in a K plan then give them to a company SCAB union like the IAM. Again, as I am not a ramper this just what I said, My Opinion.

Good luck to all. Get the fact and make an informed decision. A union is only as good as its members and leaders, and if the immediate past is an indicator. Unions at an airline are not very good at all.

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"wrench"

You've MISSED one HUGE point !!

Once a person is NON-UNION, they've become an "employee-at-will"

If any company FIRES you, there is NOT a Lawyer , or state labor board ALIVE, that can OVERTURN an E A W Firing !!!!!!!!!!!!

Even The CRAPPIEST Union(like my former TWU), CAN be SUED.

A razor sharp employee(records/pictures/witness's) coupled with a Cracker Jack Labor Lawyer, can bring a Union to 'it's Knees" $$$$

But in those cases, it Rarely ever get's to that point.

Once the CRAPPY UNION realizes that the FIRED Employee has the "ammunition" mentioned above, they do the MOST COMMON thing, which is,.....since they're probably in bed with the company,......."they" and the Company......MAKE A DEAL !!

Presto,..................Fired Employe...is...rehired,..............and,............If his lawyer is "tip top' , he won't lose a dime, or one second of Occ/CO. seniority !!!


CRAP like I outlined above, happens at AA every week !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tigerbythetail]

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"wrench"

You've MISSED one HUGE point !!

Once a person is NON-UNION, they've become an "employee-at-will"

If any company FIRES you, there is NOT a Lawyer , or state labor board ALIVE, that can OVERTURN an E A W Firing !!!!!!!!!!!!

Even The CRAPPIEST Union(like my former TWU), CAN be SUED.

A razor sharp employee(records/pictures/witness's) coupled with a Cracker Jack Labor Lawyer, can bring a Union to 'it's Knees" $$$$

But in those cases, it Rarely ever get's to that point.

Once the CRAPPY UNION realizes that the FIRED Employee has the "ammunition" mentioned above, they do the MOST COMMON thing, which is,.....since they're probably in bed with the company,......."they" and the Company......MAKE A DEAL !!

Presto,..................Fired Employe...is...rehired,..............and,............If his lawyer is "tip top' , he won't lose a dime, or one second of Occ/CO. seniority !!!


CRAP like I outlined above, happens at AA every week !!!!!!!!!!!

Common misunderstandings...

At will employement is a contract. And like every contract there is an assumption of good will on both parts. There are plenty of reasons why an employer cannot fire an at will employee (race, religious affiliation, age, etc etc). The result of that, is that most companies union or not, will have a well documented file for any firing, and state a reason for that firing.

Secondly, if you are a union airline employee, you dont have a contract with the company. You are part of a collective bargaining agreement, and are indeed, an at will employee. You may quit at anytime, and you may be fired at anytime. The only thing the union does for you is provide you with representation, in house or in court if neccesary.

So, basically, union employees are no different than non union employees, other than that all union employees in effect have union lawyers/representatives on retainer, paid for with their dues. The effect of that, obviously, is that companies with union employees are more inclined to prolong a dismissal, knowing that the effected employee will definitely have representation.

Whether either process benefits any individual employee is debatable. For example, if the process results in the firing of a good employee that has a personality conflict with a manger, that's bad. If the process protects a slug that is pushing his workload to you, or worse, endangering your safety, that's bad too. Both happen in either situation.

 

[Airlinelifer]

Common misunderstandings...

At will employement is a contract. And like every contract there is an assumption of good will on both parts. There are plenty of reasons why an employer cannot fire an at will employee (race, religious affiliation, age, etc etc). The result of that, is that most companies union or not, will have a well documented file for any firing, and state a reason for that firing.

Secondly, if you are a union airline employee, you dont have a contract with the company. You are part of a collective bargaining agreement, and are indeed, an at will employee. You may quit at anytime, and you may be fired at anytime. The only thing the union does for you is provide you with representation, in house or in court if neccesary.
So, basically, union employees are no different than non union employees, other than that all union employees in effect have union lawyers/representatives on retainer, paid for with their dues. The effect of that, obviously, is that companies with union employees are more inclined to prolong a dismissal, knowing that the effected employee will definitely have representation.

Whether either process benefits any individual employee is debatable. For example, if the process results in the firing of a good employee that has a personality conflict with a manger, that's bad. If the process protects a slug that is pushing his workload to you, or worse, endangering your safety, that's bad too. Both happen in either situation.

So as a NW employee, I should give up my pension, superior benefits package, work rules, layoff protection and JUST BE HAPPY that I have a job (if I have a job with 19 years of seniority) when these two companies merge.

 

[Airlinelifer]

:down:

 

[lineguy43]

So as a NW employee, I should give up my pension, superior benefits package, work rules, layoff protection and JUST BE HAPPY that I have a job (if I have a job with 19 years of seniority) when these two companies merge.

Well sometimes you don't have a choice.. I had 17 yrs with NW in 2005 when we went on strike. I was going to lose my job no matter how you slice it strike or no strike. I now work for FedEx I was hired at a starting salary MORE than I ever made at NW even after the AMFA contract. FedEx has better work rules than I ever had in any union be it iam or amfa. However, the union threat has to be out there or even FedEx would not offer the superior benefits they do. I do miss my 5 weeks vacation I used to have but I feel very fortunate to be where I am at now. I feel more secure in my job than I ever did with NW. I wish you the best. But I am glad to be out of there personally.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Tigerbythetail,

You Are RIGHT, about "E A W" employees being protected Via Federal Laws, though they cover ONLY so many things.

And your Right about "SLUGS"

However,

NOTHING, and I MEAN NOTHING is WORSE than A Non-Union person getting Fired over a personality conflict with any Level of MGNT !!

In summary,....protecting a few SLUGS, is worth SAVING a Mans JOB, especially in these horrible economic times !

 

[Airlinelifer]

Well sometimes you don't have a choice.. I had 17 yrs with NW in 2005 when we went on strike. I was going to lose my job no matter how you slice it strike or no strike. I now work for FedEx I was hired at a starting salary MORE than I ever made at NW even after the AMFA contract. FedEx has better work rules than I ever had in any union be it iam or amfa. However, the union threat has to be out there or even FedEx would not offer the superior benefits they do. I do miss my 5 weeks vacation I used to have but I feel very fortunate to be where I am at now. I feel more secure in my job than I ever did with NW. I wish you the best. But I am glad to be out of there personally.

Lineguy, you sacrificed a great deal for standing up for your principles. I just dont understand what the logic is if you can get a pension and better benefits by signing a card, that said, are unions perfect, no, no union is perfect. I just dont want to lose more benefits and be be told, "here are the cities where we can work at."
Glad you landed a good job, good luck in all your future endevours.

 

[lineguy43]

Lineguy, you sacrificed a great deal for standing up for your principles. I just dont understand what the logic is if you can get a pension and better benefits by signing a card, that said, are unions perfect, no, no union is perfect. I just dont want to lose more benefits and be be told, "here are the cities where we can work at."
Glad you landed a good job, good luck in all your future endevours.

Thank you. I don't know what to tell you. I know one thing I do not trust the iam slugs never have. I guess you have to go with your instincts. I know not being in a union is a risk in the airline envrionment. Just sit tight. This merger may not come around anyway. There is no sense in seeing the dark side yet. Don't panic until you need to.

 

[700UW]

Common misunderstandings...

Secondly, if you are a union airline employee, you dont have a contract with the company. You are part of a collective bargaining agreement, and are indeed, an at will employee. You may quit at anytime, and you may be fired at anytime. The only thing the union does for you is provide you with representation, in house or in court if neccesary.

Wrong, when a union employee is fired the company terminating the employee must follow the just cause steps.

A non-union employee at will can be fired without just cause.

Guess you really dont understand being in a union and having a CBA.

Union employees are not at will employees.