United Airlines will lay off about 100 workers at Port Columbus

[eolesen]

Somewhere along the way, these guys all forgot that investing in your employees almost always generates a huge ROI...

Almost always at certain levels. I'm not convinced it matters as much for every job, though.

Investing in employees certainly matters and has an ROI when they're employees you plan to keep, assign higher responsibility to, and potentially groom for leadership. That's not normally the case with an entry level newhire.

At the risk of being blunt, most entry level jobs at the airport (check-in agents, and on the ramp) were never intended to be breadwinner jobs. They're entry level. No prerequisite skill required aside from a drivers license, passing a background check and a drug test.

Don't get me wrong -- some companies do quite well at investing in their entry level people, but it's all tied to that "what does it take to do the job?" criteria.

When 90% of the entire population of the country is qualified to do a particular job with minimal training (i.e. running a cash register, throwing bags, or sweeping up cigarette butts in the parking lot), the amount of investment shrinks inversely.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

When 90% of the entire population of the country is qualified to do a particular job with minimal training (i.e. running a cash register, throwing bags, or sweeping up cigarette butts in the parking lot), the amount of investment shrinks inversely.

BS.

90% of the country cannot "throw bags". For you to lump baggage handlers/rampers in with people who run cash registers and people who sweep up cigarette butts in a parking lot shows how out of touch you are from the real operational world of an airline.

 

[eolesen]

You call a job that you can learn with a week or two of OJT a career, and I'm the one that's out of touch?

The qualifications to work on the ramp are a drivers license and a clean background check. How few people in the country do you think meet those criteria?...

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I worked line operations for many years. A ramper does not know how to do the job in one or two weeks of OJT.

Qualified and able to perform are two different things. And I don't think 90% of the population could pass the tests to work the ramp. I did not say it was a career position. I think there is nothing wrong with someone who decides that is what they want make a career out of. I also think there should be highly experienced ramp leads ensuring the safe operation of the ground ops of the flight. The entry levels should be the part timers.

You lumped the baggage handler/ramp person in with someone who sweeps up cigarette butts in a parking lot. That is out of touch if you think those are the same class of worker or skills.

 

[T5towbar]

Oh, so now that the almighty IAM (in your mind only) agreed with the company to have it inserted into a contract nego by the IAM and even have the gall to put it out for a vote, it's all ok and now it's all the memberships fault.  Ypu are such a 2 faced, flip floppin, 100% IAM supporter.  Lets see why were the members forced to vote yes in this outsourcing?  What else was in this contract that held the gun to their heads?  I bet you will not be able to recall that information will you now???

The contract was sold for several reasons.
The IAM made mistakes along the way, and the most major one was not getting sUA a separate deal that would give them their improvements before going into joint talks. (NOTE: They rectified their mistake by getting US a deal before going into joint talks). So one group needed their improvements; while another needed job protection. Plus you had another group that wasn't even unionized. So the dues became more important than the contract.
 
People who were out the door voted "Yes". People who had time in and wasn't going to be affected voted "Yes". The two biggest hubs voted "Yes". (Full disclosure - my hub voted "NO" because we took TWO rounds of cuts BEFORE the ink was dry on the contract.).  The final kicker was that ther had to be an "In-Person" vote for the second contract. I know that the bylaws said that a contract vote has to be in person, but the District broke precedence by having the first vote electronically. The second vote (and subsequent votes) should have been electronically as well. You did it once. It could have been done again. But the District needed a "Yes" vote. And the lies of  LOA's 5 & 6 sold the rest of the votes. I keep harping on this because no one in the District will answer why was LOA #5 inserted into the contract?. I know the reason, though: TO SECURE A YES VOTE ON THE CONTRACT!!!
 
Bottom line: Some of the Line stations were going to close. Everybody knew that. But the closing of CLE threw a big wrench into the works. The company had the excuse of FAR 117 to cover their ass for it. And the rest of the smaller stations. Bad management also was responsible for the 1st quarter loss (while everyone else made profits).
 

 

Why not? You think it is. How many times have we heard about how great it is that DL protects the FT workers it has, even though that means creating a permanent underclass of coworkers?

In this case, perhaps you meant that the majority working in a hub throwing the field stations under the bus?

Here's a better question to ask; with the combined (UA/CO) flight activity obviously being larger than each's PM operation, why not just adjust staffing to the new level needed? The scorched Earth policy Smisek is employing is not the right way to go.

Hell, in some places, they're even undercutting the vendors in place now...

Somewhere along the way, these guys all forgot that investing in your employees almost always generates a huge ROI...

Because of mismanagement, we lost money and now they instituted "Project Quality" - the 2 billion dollar cost cutting plan.
The company hired TWO consulting firms to institute this monster and we on the front line is feeling the effects of this.
 

uh, first, you have no idea what types of people are taking these kinds of jobs or that there are people who are supporting a family.

the number of boomerang kids is at an all-time high in the US, the amount of unpaid college student debt is at record levels, even while the creation of full-time, benefitted positions is at all time lows.

If there were full-time, benefitted positions being created, then lower paid jobs could not be filled.

Obama is sending the US down the same path in terms of no-growth economics and a vast sector of the workforce that is working below their potential - and Democrats love it because those people then become dependent on the government. That political/economic phenomena is GROWING around the world.

Take your wrath out on government policies which have limited the growth of decent paying jobs.

 
 

so it's ok for the top X% of the workforce to throw the bottom Y% under the bus and then stick a union seal of approval on it even while chiding the loss of full-time, benefitted jobs in the workforce?

and you wonder why the percentage of Americans represented by labor unions is on a continuous, downward path.

most people when they read stuff like this don't wonder.


but, yes, it was a given that UA would be forced to reduce its workforce along with its flight schedule in order to turn its profitability around.

my sincere best wishes to the employees involved who are caught in a situation that is far bigger than their individual jobs.

Everybody knew it was going to happen. So some got out. (with the convoluted scheme)  More will get out if a decent package was offered. You would get the required numbers and then some. The company went in the other direction forcing furloughs and downgrades. Now everybody sees the lie of LOA #5. And CLE wasn't supposed to go that fast. It was supposed to be a gradual downsize, allowing a orderly wind down, so people can transfer out.
 
BTW: the economy was a lot better a long time ago and there were more options for people. No one really wanted this job at one point, and some took PT because they already had something better. Now that has changed and people are desperate. Corporations see this and know that they have a great situation and don't have to pay anyone. Let the Government handle the rest. Privatize the profits while subsidizing the losses........... 

 

[topDawg]

And, now maybe some of the union people on here who degrade the Democratic Party, and preach about how wonderful the Republican Party (or God forbid, Tea party) is will understand why working people need Medicaid and Food Stamps.  $8.75/hr in this day and age would be hard for a single person to support themselves.  No way could a family wage earner make it on that alone.  Your buddies in the Republican Party aim to eliminate your union, the minimum wage, and a whole host of other benefits that we take for granted in this country.

You have got to be kidding me. 
This is the republicans fault? 
 
No the IAM and its members screwed themselves here and that is that. They took a worse than BK contract and ate it right up. 
 
I want to add to this. Just what in the exact hell has Obama and co done while he was in office? His NMB has allowed only one union to go after self help while others sit for years and years with no contract and not able to do anything about it. (I know for a fact they told the 9E pilots to pound sand when they wanted to strike, because it would hurt Delta. GMAFB). He has done nothing or even tried to do anything to proved any kind of protection in BK for labor. 
 
All he has done is pasted a huge turd for health care, had a host of his own people get American's killed, and try to cause to strip American's of as many rights as he could. (And I won't bring up the IRS, NSA and other awesome moves king genus has made.) 
 
you want to know where to start? quit pointing fingers and take your own blame. your unions have done a awesome job of screwing labor just as much as Washington has. You people keep telling us to vote dem but they don't make a change in anything. Let me know when the NMB releases a large group to strike. (IIRC last time that happened it would have been under a Republican president FWIW) 
 
 
Sorry for the little bit of a thread drift but gah this gets so old. The Dems had complete control of DC and did nothing to help labor at all. the only productive thing that has been done was changing non-voters from a no vote. 
 

Why not? You think it is. How many times have we heard about how great it is that DL protects the FT workers it has, even though that means creating a permanent underclass of coworkers?

In this case, perhaps you meant that the majority working in a hub throwing the field stations under the bus?

Here's a better question to ask; with the combined (UA/CO) flight activity obviously being larger than each's PM operation, why not just adjust staffing to the new level needed? The scorched Earth policy Smisek is employing is not the right way to go.

Hell, in some places, they're even undercutting the vendors in place now...

Somewhere along the way, these guys all forgot that investing in your employees almost always generates a huge ROI...

agreed with this. 
 

Oh, so now that the almighty IAM (in your mind only) agreed with the company to have it inserted into a contract nego by the IAM and even have the gall to put it out for a vote, it's all ok and now it's all the memberships fault.  Ypu are such a 2 faced, flip floppin, 100% IAM supporter.  Lets see why were the members forced to vote yes in this outsourcing?  What else was in this contract that held the gun to their heads?  I bet you will not be able to recall that information will you now???

wait what?

 

[T5towbar]

You have got to be kidding me. 
This is the republicans fault? 
 
No the IAM and its members screwed themselves here and that is that. They took a worse than BK contract and ate it right up. 
 

 
Yeah, we (the collective we - I for one didn't) voted this turd in for the reasons I just stated. IMHO, if the vote was electronically on TA2, that would have been shot down as well. Just sayin'.......
 
I blame the whole of DC for this jobless recovery. It's great for Wall Street, but not for Main Street.  IIRC, the Dems only had total control for about 100 days. That's how ACA got passed (albeit a watered down version of Romney Care) It's been gridlocked ever since with no hope of changing. This CONgress refuses to spend any money except for the war machine. There is a lot can be spent on that would be beneficial to all parties and jumpstart the economy. Tax Cuts isn't the be all, end all. What happened last week in Aurora is a case in point. But I digress..... We can differ.  The jury is still out on the ACA. With people being laid off and downgraded, this would be a real test to help these people get or bridge their insurance that they lost when they lost their income. We'll see......
 
I, in my previous post explained why this got passed. But I still wanted to know which no one, (including the District) will answer. Why was the 2009 BK Agreement wasn't used as a starting point for negotiations instead of the FTW Handbook. That is still mystifying to me......

 

[FWAAA]

I blame the whole of DC for this jobless recovery. It's great for Wall Street, but not for Main Street.  IIRC, the Dems only had total control for about 100 days. That's how ACA got passed (albeit a watered down version of Romney Care) It's been gridlocked ever since with no hope of changing. 

That's not how I remember 2009-10.    Democrats held control of the 111th Congress for all of 2009 and 2010, only losing control of the House in the 2010 elections.    The Democrats had a united government for two full years, and spent most of that time passing Obamacare (to the exclusion of just about everything else).   

 

[T5towbar]

You are partially correct. The Dems did have control for two years, but not effective control:
You have to remember that when the 111 Congress started, Reid & McConnell had sort of a handshake deal meaning that it would take a 60 vote supermajority to get anything passed in the Senate. But the Dems only had 59 at the time (Al Franken of Minn. didn't get seated yet since his election was contested.) The only major bill that got passed was the 787 billion Stimulus Package which a few Republicans crossed over to help get it passed IIRC. (which we didn't feel - most of it went as tax cuts and to the banks - BAILOUT PT. 2.) The only thing that we (taxpayers) got was a decrease on our withholding that just ended this year. Notice everybody's pay got smaller on your first paycheck of 2014 because the withholding skyrocketed. That so called tax holiday ended this year.
Once Franken got seated, they went to work on the ACA. Then Ted Kennedy died. And Scott Brown won the special election giving the McConnell the green light to obstruct. The reason why the watered down ACA got passed is because of the bill going into budget reconciliation (without going into the minutia) meaning it only took a simple majority of 51 votes to pass. So the Dems only had effective control for a little more than 100 days, not two full years. People tend to forget that.  
 
Getting back to the ACA, this will be a real test on how effective this bill will be. In my state (NJ) there are mass layoffs in AC. Plus in my case, people are getting downgraded and furloughed. Since many don't know how the ACA really works, (even I don't know how it works) will people get insurance since they have been laid off or downgraded - which you can get partial unemployment? You won't be able to pay your bill, cause you don't have an income. How will that work?

 

[topDawg]

 
Yeah, we (the collective we - I for one didn't) voted this turd in for the reasons I just stated. IMHO, if the vote was electronically on TA2, that would have been shot down as well. Just sayin'.......
 
I blame the whole of DC for this jobless recovery. It's great for Wall Street, but not for Main Street.  IIRC, the Dems only had total control for about 100 days. That's how ACA got passed (albeit a watered down version of Romney Care) It's been gridlocked ever since with no hope of changing. This CONgress refuses to spend any money except for the war machine. There is a lot can be spent on that would be beneficial to all parties and jumpstart the economy. Tax Cuts isn't the be all, end all. What happened last week in Aurora is a case in point. But I digress..... We can differ.  The jury is still out on the ACA. With people being laid off and downgraded, this would be a real test to help these people get or bridge their insurance that they lost when they lost their income. We'll see......
 
I, in my previous post explained why this got passed. But I still wanted to know which no one, (including the District) will answer. Why was the 2009 BK Agreement wasn't used as a starting point for negotiations instead of the FTW Handbook. That is still mystifying to me......

And why did they quickly lose the house and almost the senate? 
 
Obama had to ram ACA down our necks and for it he has locked down Washington DC. 
 
Of course none of that is going to get me to vote blue. (esp. if they keep trying to take my guns.) 

 

[john john]

Almost always at certain levels. I'm not convinced it matters as much for every job, though.

Investing in employees certainly matters and has an ROI when they're employees you plan to keep, assign higher responsibility to, and potentially groom for leadership. That's not normally the case with an entry level newhire.

At the risk of being blunt, most entry level jobs at the airport (check-in agents, and on the ramp) were never intended to be breadwinner jobs. They're entry level. No prerequisite skill required aside from a drivers license, passing a background check and a drug test.

Don't get me wrong -- some companies do quite well at investing in their entry level people, but it's all tied to that "what does it take to do the job?" criteria.

When 90% of the entire population of the country is qualified to do a particular job with minimal training (i.e. running a cash register, throwing bags, or sweeping up cigarette butts in the parking lot), the amount of investment shrinks inversely.

What you speak of applies to management. Happening at US/AA now