United Ends Bk-proof Executive Retirement Plan

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Simple math does prove that AA's funds are better funded than the plans of other carriers. And simple math proves that they'll pay out more to retirees than the plans at UAL and US will.

You think this is good.

You praise AA for paying more to its retirees than UAL and US Air.

You should be bashing them for the enormous amount of money they now owe to your non existant retirement.

This company couldnt give a rats arse about you or your pension. If they did care they would have managed the money a lot better and prevented this deficit from growing so enormous.

How in the hell do you consider a pension plan under funded by 6 billion dollars better ? :blink:

You should take a hit of that blunt with the 40 dollar stock guy. Your math skills seem to be on the same level.

:blink: Better funded :blink: I am at a loss for words on that statement

 

[FWAAA]

You think this is good.

You praise AA for paying more to its retirees than UAL and US Air.

You should be bashing them for the enormous amount of money they now owe to your non existant retirement.

This company couldnt give a rats arse about you or your pension. If they did care they would have managed the money a lot better and prevented this deficit from growing so enormous.

How in the hell do you consider a pension plan under funded by 6 billion dollars better ? :blink:

You should take a hit of that blunt with the 40 dollar stock guy. Your math skills seem to be on the same level.

:blink: Better funded :blink: I am at a loss for words on that statement

[post="257225"][/post]​

This post makes no sense. BTW, Former ModerAAtor works for AA, not UAL. And he is correct. AA's plans are much less underfunded than the plans at any other major airline. CO's plans are less than 50% funded. AA's plans are more than 80% funded.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

AA's plans are more than 80% funded.

Really?

How I wish.

 

[FWAAA]

Really?

How I wish.

[post="257233"][/post]​

Yes, Really. Consider your wish granted:

American continued to make payments to all of its pension programs in 2004, contributing $461 million to its defined benefit plans. These payments, on top of those made in recent years, have helped improved the funded level of the defined benefit plans from a low of 72 percent in 2002 to about 80 percent at the end of 2004. Since the beginning of 2005, American has contributed a further $42 million to its defined benefit pension programs.

http://www.aa.com/content/amrcorp/pressRel..._earnings.jhtml

The truth shall set you free.

Like it or not, AMR's plans are the best funded of any legacy airline.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

AMR's plans are the best funded of any legacy airline.

[post="257252"][/post]​

I believe that could be called "damning with faint praise".

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

AA's plans are much less underfunded than the plans at any other major airline.

And this proves what?????

So now its OK because we are not as bad off as UAL and US Air.

keep sugar coating and you will belive its OK for the corporations of America to screw thier employees out of their retirement. Unless of course you are on the Board at AA or the upper crust of the twu. They have their golden parachutes while you have the lead balloon. :down:

 

[aafsc]

When you or the majority still working at AA retire you will be lucky to see 50 cents on the dollar. That is being generous.
The PBGC will take over and be grateful if you see 25 cents on the dollsr. Talk to the retirees of PAA

Fact 30 years at PAA equates to 400 dollars a month. :huh:

[post="257223"][/post]​

Thats because Pan Am's pensions were very underfunded and eventually taken over by the government. Pan Am's pensions were underfunded by $841 million dollars at the time of their demise. Although this amount is smaller than the pension deficits of the airlines today, there are two reasons why it is. First, at the time of it's death, in terms of it's size, Pan Am was a fraction of it was in it's glory days; years and years of selling assets to pay bills is why Pan Am was so emaciated at the end. So in proportion to it's size at the end, the deficit was huge. Second, Pan Am went out of business in 1991, that is 14 years ago. A dollar bought a lot more back then plus I seriously doubt that the Pan Am pensions get cost of living increases.

 

[aafsc]

You think this is good.

You praise AA for paying more to its retirees than UAL and US Air.

You should be bashing them for the enormous amount of money they now owe to your non existant retirement.

This company couldnt give a rats arse about you or your pension. If they did care they would have managed the money a lot better and prevented this deficit from growing so enormous.

How in the hell do you consider a pension plan under funded by 6 billion dollars better ? :blink:

You should take a hit of that blunt with the 40 dollar stock guy. Your math skills seem to be on the same level.

:blink: Better funded :blink: I am at a loss for words on that statement

[post="257225"][/post]​

The truth is, of all the big 6 managements, AA management has done the best job in terms of funding the pensions. AA's pensions are the highest funded of all the legacy airlines. You say that AA management is responsible for the enormous deficit. But the reason why almost all pension plans have done poorly is because of the decline in interest rates and falling stock prices. Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, and the likes did a LOT of damage in terms of confidence in the financial markets. When these scandals hit, a lot of people took their money out for fear of losing it thus causing the prices to fall. Before the Enrons of the world were seen for what they really were, AA's pensions were OVERFUNDED. It appears to me that AA and the unions are trying to keep the pensions intact as evidenced by the proposals they are pushing for in Congress. Give credit where credit is due, the pensions are 80% funded now (with AA contributing the required amount of cash this year) and could very well be 90% funded by years end. Just ask the UA and US employees if they think Arpey is doing a good job managing our pensions.

 

[Decision 2004]

 

[Wretched Wrench]

The pan am comparison is interesting, and a little scary. What union did the mechs have there?

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

that is 14 years ago. A dollar bought a lot more back then plus I seriously doubt that the Pan Am pensions get cost of living increases.

The dollar did buy a lot more back then today I am still making the same money I did 15 years ago.




View attachment 2698

But the reason why almost all pension plans have done poorly is because of the decline in interest rates and falling stock prices

You blame bad money management on falling stock prices and intrest rates.

The purchase of TWA and the exspansion of the airline when overcapacity was abundant had nothing to do with it.
The millions of dollars pissed away for terminals and arenas. The list goes on and on. Are you really that blind to it all. It must be the twu Kool Aide

Tell it to Warren Buffet

 

[aafsc]

The pan am comparison is interesting, and a little scary. What union did the mechs have there?

[post="257307"][/post]​

Yes, they had the TWU. But the $841 million was the shortfall for ALL the pensions. Is it all the TWU's fault for what happened at Pan Am? What about ALPA, or the flight attendants union (IFFA or something like that)? What about the EXTREMELY poor managment decisions made by Pan Am management (National merger, selling the very profitable Pacific to UA) are you going to blame the TWU for these poor management decsions? What about the unfortunate events that happened to them like Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie? Are you going to blame the TWU for Pan Am 103 also? I have no love for the TWU or the IAM but they are not responsible for all the problems of the world. It is airline managements responsibility to manage the pensions funds in order for them to pay what was promised.

 

[aafsc]

The dollar did buy a lot more back then today I am still making the same money I did 15 years ago.
View attachment 2698
You blame bad money management on falling stock prices and intrest rates.

The purchase of TWA and the exspansion of the airline when overcapacity was abundant had nothing to do with it.
The millions of dollars pissed away for terminals and arenas. The list goes on and on. Are you really that blind to it all. It must be the twu Kool Aide

Tell it to Warren Buffet

[post="257308"][/post]​

I have clearly stated my position on the TWA transaction along with all of Carty's other mistakes. If I remember correctly the TWU OPPOSED the TWA deal. The TWU CANNOT dictate to management how it conducts corporate affairs. However, I am talking about the pension funding issue only. The points I am trying to make are:

1. At one time AA pensions were OVERFUNDED. The federal government will NOT allow unlimited overfunding for tax reasons. If the companies could overfund without limits, they would never pay taxes. That is why the government has limits.

2. The corporate scandals put fear into millions of people which caused them to sell their stock. When you have more sellers than buyers what happens? The price of the item drops. Accordingly, the value of AA's pension plans assets (comprised partly of stock) dropped; thus causing the underfunding. Also recessions have an affect on stock price.

3. With the stock market recovering, interest rates rising, and AA contributing the required cash to the plans (almost $500 million last year and about $360 million this year) the underfunding is diminishing and the plans could very well be fully funded or overfunded again in the next couple of years.

I have no love for the TWU or AFL-CIO. But it seems to me your thinking is clouded by that AMFA koolaide.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

I have no love for the TWU or AFL-CIO. But it seems to me your thinking is clouded by that AMFA koolaide

My thinking is nit clouded by any Kool Aid. I am just placing the blame on those who are accountable but incur no ramifications for their inabilities to do their job. The twu and AA management are prime examples. I am sick and tired of the constant concessions made by labor. History has proved this approach does not solve the problems of the companies that are mismanaged. My fight is for the AMT and the once proud profession. Ask the AMTs of Eastern PAA Tower and TWA if all their concessions helped them . I would think NOT :angry:

You keep sugar coating all the negativity and may be some other fool on this board will start to believe that it is all labors faultit but not me.

No more concessions or close up shop

AAs problem is they stoped at Carty they should have cleaned house they are all guilty and the twu should be next to go.

 

[aafsc]

My thinking is nit clouded by any Kool Aid. I am just placing the blame on those who are accountable but incur no ramifications for their inabilities to do their job. The twu and AA management are prime examples. I am sick and tired of the constant concessions made by labor. History has proved this approach does not solve the problems of the companies that are mismanaged. My fight is for the AMT and the once proud profession. Ask the AMTs of Eastern PAA Tower and TWA if all their concessions helped them . I would think NOT :angry:

You keep sugar coating all the negativity and may be some other fool on this board will start to believe that it is all labors faultit but not me.

No more concessions or close up shop

AAs problem is they stoped at Carty they should have cleaned house they are all guilty and the twu should be next to go.

[post="257335"][/post]​

I NEVER said it was labors fault. I work the ramp for AA and am a union member. In my many previous posts, I have listed management's many screw ups. You say that I should ask an AMT about concessions. MY father was an AMT at EAL and WENT ON STRIKE. I was also employed by EAL and walked the picket line. I also had two uncles that worked for EAL and they also walked the picket line. So my family and I are very experienced in fighting concessions and paid the ultimate price for striking; so I don't need to be lectured by you. I am NOT sugar coating anything, you are exascerbating the pension problem. All I said was that AA's pensions are the best funded when compared to the other legacies. This is the truth and is plain for all to see. I get the sense that you would like to see the pension plan terminated and AA come back for more concessions in order to so pi$$ off everyone, that they will bring in AMFA in a landslide election. Lets just see how well AMFA does with the upcoming contracts at UA and NW. And your statement "no more concessions or close up shop" brings back some interesting memories at EAL. My father was a lead AMT and there was one guy on my dads crew that sounded a LOT like people on these boards. He said "we gotta strike, we gotta strike, they're f*****g us, they're f*****g us". Well guess what, when the strike came this loud mouth coward scab was one of the first to cross the picket line. If that time ever comes at AA, I hope you put your money where your mouth is and are prepared to risk it all. And I wonder if those at UA and NW will do the same.