Update Regarding AAA Presentation to EC

[Callsign_Cactus]

Got to give this guy credit for getting this almost right. However, the part you are skipping is how to avoid that pesky binding legal contract with the West pilots called the TA. Even if you do vote ALPA off the property you cannot undue what has been done. So, go ahead and throw ALPA off the property as quickly as possible. That will expedite implementation of the new list via court order and we can all move on.

The latter would be correct.

Both groups would have to sign enough cards since the NMB certified Single Carrier Status.

You would have to get the right % for the NMB to hold an election.

Unions under the RLA do not decertify, that would only be under the NLRA.

 

[LCC_#1]

Even if US had somehow managed to stay afloat, there would have been a 15-30% reduction in the fleet. That would have put half of the East FOs on the street. And those are the people that were supposedly "shafted" by the Nicolau decision. Perhaps they are better off even with their unhappiness about the decision.

Part of the deal to come out of ch 11 and merging was reducing the fleet by a large number...i think 40-60 ac. Had we somehow stayed afloat, 60 planes would be roughly 30% but check my fuzzy math.

 

[skyflyr69]

East will have Super majority. Count on it. Bye Bye....

Again per RLA website this is only way to change or get rid of unions. Call it what you like decertification or whatever.

. Q: How can employees change their labor organization?

A: Employees can change their labor organization by signing authorization cards for another organization, which then files an application and "wins" an election.

11. Q: How can employees decertify their current representative without getting another one?

A: There is no application for decertification, however if a majority of the craft or class does not vote for representation the current representative will lose its representation rights.

12. Q: Can employees form and elect their own union?

A: Yes, employees can form their own organization if they submit an application supported by a sufficient showing of interest.

 

[exB717Flyer]

East will have Super majority. Count on it. Bye Bye....

There you have it: the WebBoard equivalent of a hit-and-run accident.

 

[ilg30/7]

Got to give this guy credit for getting this almost right. However, the part you are skipping is how to avoid that pesky binding legal contract with the West pilots called the TA. Even if you do vote ALPA off the property you cannot undue what has been done. So, go ahead and throw ALPA off the property as quickly as possible. That will expedite implementation of the new list via court order and we can all move on.

What I've yet to hear from anybody in the West is how this list gets implemented without a ratified single agreement.

You can throw around all the "done deals" and "Its overs" you want, but I still don't see how this means anything more than a piece of paper without at least one more vote from the East.

Does that seem like something that is likely to occur anytime soon?

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

No, and I don't think any of us really care when the list is implemented. If you want to work for slave wages and suffer with that miserable scheduling section you guys have, go for it. I say this though, I am after better pay and working conditions and right now you guys stand in my way with all of your petty BS over the award. I could care less what you guys do, and the mere fact you hold that threat (not voting) over my head says a lot. In fact, you can take the list and stick it where the sun don't shine as far as I am concerned. At least I will never have to be associated with your kind.

I was locked and loaded ready to stand side-by-side with my east colleagues as we battle the Company for a better life, career, and for respect. With the reaction in the east to the award, on top of what I have already lost because of this acquisition, this has made me extremely bitter.

What I've yet to hear from anybody in the West is how this list gets implemented without a ratified single agreement.

You can throw around all the "done deals" and "Its overs" you want, but I still don't see how this means anything more than a piece of paper without at least one more vote from the East.

Does that seem like something that is likely to occur anytime soon?

 

[BoeingBoy]

What I've yet to hear from anybody in the West is how this list gets implemented without a ratified single agreement.

It doesn't take an Einstein.....

1 - Parker has said that he can impose one side's agreement on the other. Don't know if that's true or not, but if so there's your single agreement without a vote cast (and stuck with one of the current agreements - care to guess which one?)

2 - The transition agreement gets thrown out, which is really all that stands in the way of putting the list into effect without a single agreement (and East is stuck with the concessionary agreement for how long?)

3 - There's never a single agreement and the list doesn't go into effect. But anything between two extremes could happen over the course of 5-6 years, with the extremes being that the East disappears or the West disappears. Of course, the few remaining pilots on the shrinking side would probably capitulate to save their jobs. (you played all or nothing once, care to double down with your job at stake?)

Jim

 

[ilg30/7]

No, and I don't think any of us really care when the list is implemented. If you want to work for slave wages and suffer with that miserable scheduling section you guys have, go for it. I say this though, I am after better pay and working conditions and right now you guys stand in my way with all of your petty BS over the award. I could care less what you guys do, and the mere fact you hold that threat (not voting) over my head says a lot. In fact, you can take the list and stick it where the sun don't shine as far as I am concerned. At least I will never have to be associated with your kind.

I was locked and loaded ready to stand side-by-side with my east colleagues as we battle the Company for a better life, career, and for respect. With the reaction in the east to the award, on top of what I have already lost because of this acquisition, this has made me extremely bitter.

Aww... somebody may not get his way w/ regard to a new contract and that makes you bitter?

Explain to me how that is any different from what you so arrogantly castigate the East pilots for doing? And as far as what you lost - trust me when I say it doesn't amount to a thing compared to what the East pilots have sacrificed over the years. Recently, many of these same pilots have found out that they will never, ever realize the benefits of those sacrifices, as they have been awarded to another group.

I am no pilot, but even I can see how that might cause them to have a bit of an unpleasant reaction.

It doesn't take an Einstein.....

1 - Parker has said that he can impose one side's agreement on the other. Don't know if that's true or not, but if so there's your single agreement without a vote cast (and stuck with one of the current agreements - care to guess which one?)

2 - The transition agreement gets thrown out, which is really all that stands in the way of putting the list into effect without a single agreement (and East is stuck with the concessionary agreement for how long?)

3 - There's never a single agreement and the list doesn't go into effect. But anything between two extremes could happen over the course of 5-6 years, with the extremes being that the East disappears or the West disappears. Of course, the few remaining pilots on the shrinking side would probably capitulate to save their jobs. (you played all or nothing once, care to double down with your job at stake?)

Jim

1. - I'm not sure how Doug plans on imposing a contract on a unionized work group without their consent outside of bankruptcy. I'm no expert, but I'm fairly sure that's still labor law.

2. - Again, I'm not sure how Doug throws out the TA without the consent of both sides, outside of bankruptcy.

3. - You are probably correct in this scenario, but it would not take a genius to figure out what contract has the lower overall labor cost associated with it. Unless Doug plans to throw the shareholders and the bottom line under the bus by going with the more expensive contract. Has he shown a propensity towrd doing something like this?

 

[BoeingBoy]

1 - as I said, I don't know if he can or not but he said it. This isn't the normal "one airline, one employee group, one contract" situation where you'd undoubtedly be right.

2 - Read the TA, not as the East pilots would like it to be interpreted but as Jerry Glass might interpret it.

3 - Supposedly the East contract is less expensive, but that doesn't mean that the East pilot cost is less. Nearly every East pilot is at TOS, while that isn't close to being the case on the West side so the East cost could be higher even though the contract is lower cost. Same goes for the widebody operation - that could be higher cost even though the overall contract is lower cost.

My point is that lots of people are throwing faulty "facts" around as the basis for solutions to the East "problem". Sometimes the solution can be worse than the problem, just like kudzu for controlling erosion, especially when the "facts" supporting that solution are false.

Jim

 

[EyeInTheSky]

There you have it: the WebBoard equivalent of a hit-and-run accident.

No silly,
It's a reality drive-by.

Later,
Eye

 

[Hawkhunter]

No, and I don't think any of us really care when the list is implemented. If you want to work for slave wages and suffer with that miserable scheduling section you guys have, go for it. I say this though, I am after better pay and working conditions and right now you guys stand in my way with all of your petty BS over the award. I could care less what you guys do, and the mere fact you hold that threat (not voting) over my head says a lot. In fact, you can take the list and stick it where the sun don't shine as far as I am concerned. At least I will never have to be associated with your kind.

I was locked and loaded ready to stand side-by-side with my east colleagues as we battle the Company for a better life, career, and for respect. With the reaction in the east to the award, on top of what I have already lost because of this acquisition, this has made me extremely bitter.

Good we have a mutual understanding you pr!ck.

 

[EastUS]

"No, and I don't think any of us really care when the list is implemented. At least I will never have to be associated with your kind."

Well Cactus..that's your loss as well as ours. We've some very good people out here..as is doubtless the case out west...although what I've heard from you thus far's been naught more than gleefull crowing at what you thought to be a "done deal"..as well as a stated desire to "Take your seat" 🙂

"I was locked and loaded ready to stand side-by-side with my east colleagues as we battle the Company for a better life, career, and for respect."

What manifestly obivous, and totally obvious BS sir. I offer your own words up as rebuttal for this last whining session of yours:

"BTW, I am sure you guys will really like calling my name (cactus) after certifcate merge this summer. It really is a catchy call sign." "I’ll never fly with an arrogant East prick."

Awww..wasn't that just too precious?


"With the reaction in the east to the award, on top of what I have already lost because of this acquisition, this has made me extremely bitter."

Hmmm...welcome to the airline version of the "grown up" world then. This is hardly our first rodeo out east.

 

[Phoenix]

...this has made me extremely bitter.

Don't look in the mirror now.. but the transformation is complete. You have become a USAir pilot.. and you already have over 20 years at USAir. B)

 

[flytchick]

According to a US Airways MEC source, the presentation to the Executive Council is the first step in the process of decertifying ALPA on the US Airways property, imposing a new union on the America West pilots, seeking legal relief/damages, not agreeing to a new contract and living under LOA 93/RLA (which is the right of the US Airways pilots), and permitting "whip sawing" of the AWA pilots to the maximum extent possible under terms of the Transition Agreement.

What can the AWA pilots do about this? Nothing, absolutely nothing!

😛

Regards,

USA320Pilot

There is absolutely NO way you can "impose" another union on the West pilots.