US 22 PHX-HNL diverts to ITO

[ussnark]

They'll laugh you out of the building - hopefully permanently.

Naw, they'll "respect" his "seniority", the "s" word that is never mentioned amongst westies.

 

[dariencc]

Boy, I've had enough real-life emergencies in a variety of heavy airliners to know when to do what. I've landed overweight in a 757, held for 4 hours while burning down to max landing weight in a 747 and dumped fuel for 15 minutes off the coast of Miami in a DC-8.

Boy, the 4 engine examples are completely irrelevant to the issue of holding to burn off fuel in a 2 engine aircraft. If you landed overweight in a 75 after shutting one down, congatulations, you did the right thing. Now please explain why the AWA group on this forum was praising, as good judgement, the idiotic decision to hold at SDF on one engine to get down to max landing weight.


Last time I checked I had 9 in-flight engine failures / shutdowns and a variety of other system emergencies all over the world (None at AWA, but life at the freighters can be exciting) So go back to your Microsoft Flight Simulator and leave the flying to those who've been there, done that.

Been there, done that. Wow, I'm impressed. And you still don't know that there is no "ETOPS airspace," or that shutdowns/diversions on those flights are not judged differently according to where they happen?
Sounds like you worked at a lot of crap operators to have had 9 shutdowns in your own career. Then your career path took you to AWA. You must have some real limitations to have never been able to break out of the bottom rung of aviation. No college? Scab? Don't interview well? What is it?

 

[CaptainZitface]

Sounds like you worked at a lot of crap operators to have had 9 shutdowns in your own career.

Nope, just one. And for a single guy in his twenties, flying around the world in a big freighter at decent pay is a heck of a lot better than flying puddlejumpers between Charlotte and Roanoke all day for 18K a year. Not a bad way to sit out a downturn in the economy in the early nineties, while waiting for the major airlines to resume hiring. BTW, we had at least 40 furloughed AAA, DAL, etc pilots on our list. If I recall correctly, even the F-15 jock who shot down the first MIG in Gulf War 1 got to do some "time" as a 727 freightdog while furloughed from DAL ...ExpressOne, I think. If it's good enough for them....

Then your career path took you to AWA. You must have some real limitations to have never been able to break out of the bottom rung of aviation.

MMM......the furloughed AAA guys I flew with were recalled, then furloughed again a few years later and are FOs with SWA and JB now. In my DC-8 upgrade class 6 out of 12 went to AAA, the other six went to other majors. I was the only one not furloughed after 9/11 and am the only one in the left seat right now. The six AAA guys are still furloughed. Good point, there, ace.

No college?

Nope, got a Master's.

Scab?

Nope, too young for that.

Don't interview well?

Nope, got every airline job I ever interviewed for (3 for 3) I think it's my boyish good looks and sparkling personality.

 

[SegmentKing]

Btw, I was actually giving some kudos to the crew for the Hilo landing.... that airport is notorious for crosswind landings, and if you have to come in from the west, you pretty much maintain the same altitude above the ground for the last 10 miles on approach (due to the slope of the volcanos).

And by the way, there are no HP/US agents in Hilo... so however these passengers were reaccomodated, it must have been a difficult task to complete.

I've flown HP to/from Hawai'i more than I'd like to admit, but I never really recall any flights being late (over 30 minutes)... flight crews were always good, some FA's are difficult, but otherwise my trips have been 'uneventful'.

 

[AnalyzeThis]

If anyone cared to know about the customers, here is what happened.

Hawaiian Airlines is our contract carrier in the event of such diversions.

Upon arrival, HA was more concerned about getting paid for ground handling
then they were about taking care of our customers.

The Mayor of Hilo went to the airport upon hearing of the emergency landing.

They Mayor assisted in customer recover efforts

An Aloha Airlines plane was chartered from ITO to HNL and carried approx
100 customers.

Ground transportation was arranged for the remaining customers to go from
ITO to KOA.

There were approx 40 Customers that were connecting in HNL to KOA, so
the ground transportation took them to their destination.

The remaining 40 customers were rebooked on a HA flight from KOA to HNL,
which Aloha held until our customers arrived.

The Mayor arranged to have the ground transportation stop and pick up food
for the customers.

All customers were at their destination in approx 4 hours.

This was a tremendous effort on the part of our team in HA, the Mayor of ITO,
the SOC, Hawaiian Airlines, Aloha Airlines, etc. Each and every person involved
deserves a standing O for their handling of the situation.

 

[dariencc]

The great thing about the internet is that you can make all sorts of stuff up, Zitface. Nine inflight shutdowns, all happening in "the early nineties." Don't think so. Truly an amazing propensity for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Why not claim twenty, since this is an anonymous forum, after all. Also, why not claim to have a doctorate next time.

You haven't explained why you didn't know that there is no such thing as "ETOPS airspace," or that the position where the PHX-ITO shutdown/diversion occurred is irrelevant to the entire ETOPS reliability issue. Truly remarkable for someone with such extensive, yet unverifiable experience.

You once dumped fuel "off the coast of Miami?" (Never met a real pilot who talks that way) The relevance of that would be what? Would you finally care to quit dodging the question of whether it made any sense for your AWA brethren to hold single engine so they could burn down to max landing weight at SDF? Every AWA pilot on this board praised the crew for good judgement after that abortion.

I know from ALPA committee work that the FAA is all over the SDF silliness. They are also all over the AWA ETOPS mainrtenance program, and they are not happy. Your side of the operation needs some honest self analysis, followed by needed change, or this sh__ sandwich is going to get a whole lot worse.

 

[EastUS]

If anyone cared to know about the customers, here is what happened.


All customers were at their destination in approx 4 hours.

This was a tremendous effort on the part of our team in HA, the Mayor of ITO,
the SOC, Hawaiian Airlines, Aloha Airlines, etc. Each and every person involved
deserves a standing O for their handling of the situation.

Serious Thumbs Up for the passenger handling. 4 hours is a pretty impressive recovery/get them to their destination time for such an event, even in a tourist-centric region.

 

[CaptainZitface]

The great thing about the internet is that you can make all sorts of stuff up

Like you being a mainline LCC pilot?

Nine inflight shutdowns, all happening in "the early nineties." Don't think so.

Obviously, you have never talked to any real freightdogs. Mine is nowhere near being a record in that timespan

Why not claim twenty, since this is an anonymous forum, after all. Also, why not claim to have a doctorate next time.

20 and a phD would be lying. 9 and a Master's is the truth. It's probably a bit much to understand for somebody who never faced anything worse than an inoperative coffeepot on an RJ.

the position where the PHX-ITO shutdown/diversion occurred is irrelevant to the entire ETOPS reliability issue.

.
I never claimed I knew the legalities of maintaining ETOPS certification. Only going by what I was told by people who are supposed to be in the know.

Would you finally care to quit dodging the question of whether it made any sense for your AWA brethren to hold single engine so they could burn down to max landing weight at SDF? Every AWA pilot on this board praised the crew for good judgement after that abortion.

Not too familiar with the incident you're talking about. Recall reading something about it in a memo, but I don't recall the specifics. Must have been before I discovered this wonderful board. Not going to question my brothers' actions in a public forum. I'll let our perfect safety record of the last 23+ years speak for itself.

Your side of the operation needs some honest self analysis, followed by needed change, or this sh__ sandwich is going to get a whole lot worse.

My side of the operation involves getting airplanes safely from A to B, and that's what I'm doing. Been doing the HI runs since Day 1. So far, no diverts, no emergencies, a grand total of 2 cancellations and about 65% on-time (which these days is about average).

Hugs and kisses, sweetpea. I'm done explaining myself to rank amateurs. Tomorrow I'll be catching a wave in Waikiki while you'll be doing a walk-around on your Jungle-jet in the rain in Rochester.

 

[dariencc]

Like you being a mainline LCC pilot?

Been a mainline Captain since before you were yanking gear for that crap freight operator.

I never claimed I knew the legalities of maintaining ETOPS certification. Only going by what I was told by people who are supposed to be in the know.

Let's get this straight. You claim to be a Captain flying to Hawaii on the 75, yet you know nothing about the requirements for maintaining ETOPS certification???? And in your previous posts, you didn't even understand how to properly define the airspace you operate in???? Nor did you understand that where shutdowns/diversions on ETOPS flights occur have NO relevance to the issue of meeting the required performance standards???? You must have spent a lot of time studying when you achieved your "qualification" there, Champ. Good grief!

I can only hope that no Delta, American, Northwest, or United pilots happen upon this inadvertantly revealing thread. As if it wasn't embarrassing enough to work at this place already. We can only hope that the Feds are serious about putting your ETOPS circus out of its misery.

My side of the operation involves getting airplanes safely from A to B, and that's what I'm doing. Been doing the HI runs since Day 1. So far, no diverts, no emergencies, a grand total of 2 cancellations and about 65% on-time (which these days is about average).

The number of diverts by one random pilot establishes exactly what? Spoken like some kid wannabe on a webboard. Pathetic.

Hugs and kisses, sweetpea. I'm done explaining myself to rank amateurs. Tomorrow I'll be catching a wave in Waikiki while you'll be doing a walk-around on your Jungle-jet in the rain in Rochester.

I've got a better idea, you twerp. Spend some time in your room and get into the books.



There is no hope.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

"Technically outside of ETOPS airspace" doesn't cut it. If it is an ETOPS aircraft and it has an engine shutdown, whether it's PHX-LAS or PHX-HNL, it counts against your maintenance reliability.

Mtnman

The engine was not shut down, nor did it flame out. It was brought to idle in accordance with the procedures for high engine vibration. It was operating at idle upon landing and was continuously available if its use had been deemed necessary.

Don't be such an uninformed drama queen.

 

[Mtnman928]

The engine was not shut down, nor did it flame out. It was brought to idle in accordance with the procedures for high engine vibration. It was operating at idle upon landing and was continuously available if its use had been deemed necessary.

Don't be such an uninformed drama queen.

"An America West Boeing 757 flight from Las Vegas to Honolulu was diverted to Hilo this weekend when one of its two engines shut down after experiencing vibrations."

Try reading the original post Cap. We use to have a saying about taking tests, RTFQF before answering and making a fool of yourself. (Read The F***n Question First).

I think it'll still be recorded as an event and could put your 180 minute rule routes in jeopardy should another one occur.

Mtnman

 

[ussnark]

The engine was not shut down, nor did it flame out. It was brought to idle in accordance with the procedures for high engine vibration. It was operating at idle upon landing and was continuously available if its use had been deemed necessary.

Don't be such an uninformed drama queen.

Being forced to bring an engine to idle, then diverting is not considered an engine failure event? Are you on drugs?

Your kind of logic could be used to justify one engine at TO thrust and one engine at idle for takeoff, which might be par for the course.

An engine at idle is not considered "continuously available" considering that it was reduced to idle for high vibration, a pretty good symptom of imminent engine failure. That is like saying, yeah we had two turning, one engine and an APU.

Considering the approach at ITO, you could have (likely) only landed that one direction as the other would be unavailable in the possible case of single engine go-around.

Talk about uninformed........

 

[EastUS]

The engine was not shut down, nor did it flame out. It was brought to idle in accordance with the procedures for high engine vibration. It was operating at idle upon landing and was continuously available if its use had been deemed necessary.

Don't be such an uninformed drama queen.

"and was continuously available if its use had been deemed necessary." Don't EVEN try running that "logic" by the FAA, or any sane Check Airman. Fully agreed that the proper response was to reduce thrust, and keep the engine lit..BUT; considering said engine as "continuously available" is not sensible in any way. It's nice to have if you truly need additional thrust for a bad situation, not much likely in a plane so magnificently overpowered as is the case here, but it's clearly not a reliable powerplant any more. At worst? = increasing thrust again has at least the slight potential to induce catastophic failure, and shouldn't be considered unless in serious need.

 

[brown]

SERIOUSLY? You are kidding about being "lucky" right? Yes, we'd all love to fly with the most experienced pilots in the world, but it sounds like these folks did what they should have and got the bird on the ground safely. I highly doubt that either of them personally did any maintenance on the aircraft - so what gives?

Just becuase you may be nearing mandatory retirement doesn't mean that you have the right to diss the newer folks - courtesy could might do you a world of good!

Are you assuming it was a maintenance techs fault?

 

[flybynite]

Like you being a mainline LCC pilot?
Obviously, you have never talked to any real freightdogs. Mine is nowhere near being a record in that timespan
20 and a phD would be lying. 9 and a Master's is the truth. It's probably a bit much to understand for somebody who never faced anything worse than an inoperative coffeepot on an RJ.

.
I never claimed I knew the legalities of maintaining ETOPS certification. Only going by what I was told by people who are supposed to be in the know.
Not too familiar with the incident you're talking about. Recall reading something about it in a memo, but I don't recall the specifics. Must have been before I discovered this wonderful board. Not going to question my brothers' actions in a public forum. I'll let our perfect safety record of the last 23+ years speak for itself.
My side of the operation involves getting airplanes safely from A to B, and that's what I'm doing. Been doing the HI runs since Day 1. So far, no diverts, no emergencies, a grand total of 2 cancellations and about 65% on-time (which these days is about average).

Hugs and kisses, sweetpea. I'm done explaining myself to rank amateurs. Tomorrow I'll be catching a wave in Waikiki while you'll be doing a walk-around on your Jungle-jet in the rain in Rochester.

I can't keep myself from asking this, but what is a Jungle-jet?