US 22 PHX-HNL diverts to ITO

[NevadaHP]

Here is a list of other reportable items. Some are more serious than others. There is a lot more information in the regs regarding ETOPS reliabilty standards, but this is a good start.

(2) In addition to the items required to be reportedby FAR §§ 21.3 and 121.703, the following information [b]should[/b] be included:• In-flight shut downs• Diversions or turnbacks• Uncommanded power changes or surges• Inability to control the engine or obtaindesired power• Problems in systems considered to have afundamental influence on flight safety• Failure to start the APU while airborne• Uncommanded inflight shut-downs of theAPU• Any other event the inspector considers detri-mental to extended-range operations(3) Items/systems that are considered critical toflight safety include the following:• Electrical, including batteries• Hydraulic• Pneumatic• Flight instrumentation• Fuel• Flight control• Ice protection• Engine start and ignition• Propulsion system instruments• Navigation and communications• Auxiliary power-units• Air conditioning and pressurization• Cargo fire suppression• Emergency equipment• Any other equipment that is required forextended range operations

Well should doesnt mean they have to. If you know contract language.

 

[soc-hpjester]

Nevada, You will be happy to know the eng. r/r went well on 908.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sorry, Jim, you're usually a reliable source, but you're out to lunch on this one.

And I should have been clearer - I was using your post as a convenient jumping off point for two reasons:

- Previous remarks, after it was said that the engine wasn't shut down - "Being forced to bring an engine to idle, then diverting is not considered an engine failure event? Are you on drugs?" and "For all practical purposes that engine was shutdown."

- There are events and there are EVENTS. The IFSD rate is a bright line a carrier doesn't cross if they want to keep ETOPS certification. For those you listed, context/specifics/cumulative quantity all enter the picture - there is no bright line that says "One more than X number of any of these events and you lose ETOPS certification". Just to use the first on the list, a diversion/turnback for a passenger medical problem would have absolutely no effect on ETOPS, even if it happened on every flight for a month.

Jim

 

[ussnark]

The IFSD rate is a bright line a carrier doesn't cross if they want to keep ETOPS certification. For those you listed, context/specifics/cumulative quantity all enter the picture - there is no bright line that says "One more than X number of any of these events and you lose ETOPS certification". Just to use the first on the list, a diversion/turnback for a passenger medical problem would have absolutely no effect on ETOPS, even if it happened on every flight for a month.

Jim

Actually, the FARs on ETOPs state your second point very well, actually, over and over. As you say, many factors are considered. The regulations concerning ETOPs were changed recently, 16 Jan 07. To be considered an IFSD an aircraft must be airborne. The un-contained failure of the 767 engine in PHL would not have been considered, by regulation. Even an engine failure on takeoff roll, as long as the aircraft is still on the ground, would not be considered.

Interesting clarifications.

 

[SegmentKing]

Just saw on a.net that US20 turned back yesterday.. anyone know if "Christine" - 908AW was the culprit? Although the posters said this WAS the replacement plane for the original flt as it had a mechanical.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE20

event was 22 september.

 

[legacy-to-LCC]

Just saw on a.net that US20 turned back yesterday.. anyone know if "Christine" - 908AW was the culprit? Although the posters said this WAS the replacement plane for the original flt as it had a mechanical.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE20

event was 22 september.

i wonder how frequently united, delta, american, hawaiian, and aloha divert like we do

 

[Itestwell]

i wonder how frequently united, delta, american, hawaiian, and aloha divert like we do

Nobody diverts like we do, baby..... Nobody..... :groovy:

 

[700AW]

Just saw on a.net that US20 turned back yesterday.. anyone know if "Christine" - 908AW was the culprit? Although the posters said this WAS the replacement plane for the original flt as it had a mechanical.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE20

event was 22 september.

not to sound snarky, but it could have been "christine" or it could have been n908aw, but it was not both
"christine" is n901aw, aka the flying flag of Arizona, n908aw is the plane formally known as "chicken little" the cardinal's plane that belly flopped in the hangar years ago