US Airways and LGA

[john john]

Are you guys still the largest carrier at LGA? Is anyone aware of the proposal to limit the number of flights at the airport by years end by requiring carriers to use larger planes?

Didn’t some senator or congressperson allow more RJ’s without slots to take of and land at LGA….

 

[sfb]

I guess all I am saying is that we limited ourselves to the kind of traveling by making LGA our preferred airport. Although we DO have alot of biz travellers that prefer LGA and yes, Manhattanites on the East side CAN take a quick cab to LGA..was always envious of those folks as I lived on the west side...we gave CAL the ability to hub CAL and flood the local market with transcon, European, South American and Asia flights. Had we played it right, EWR could had been our PHL with millions more of local traffic.

I don't think choosing to build up LGA was a bad idea at the time; NYC was historically the largest and one of the highest-fare markets in the U.S., especially from LGA. And US at the time didn't have a fleet amenable to a large transatlantic buildup; CO did (although the DC-10's and 747's were too large for many routes). CO also had a well-located hub at IAH for routes to Latin America which still sees much more of that service than EWR.

While Philadelphia is indeed a smaller market than NYC, US had the advantage of being the sole hub carrier there. CO has had to compete with AA, DL, UA, BA, AF, LH, and many other foreign flag carriers to Europe; with AA and foreign carriers to Latin America, and with AA, DL, and UA on transcons.

I feel one of the missteps taken by US at LGA has been the dramatic scaleback in mainline flying there. Six years ago, LGA saw 105 daily mainline US Airways departures, including the Shuttle. Today, that number is down to 46. I suppose it's understandable, considering the fleet has shrunk by roughly 45% since that time; it's impossible to maintain 3-4 hubs and 3 focus cities with the reduced fleet. But it is difficult to remain the preferred airline for business travelers in a competitive market if nearly 80% of your flights are on RJ's or props.

 

[Hope777]

No. I've done it quite recently. I'm talking about Penn Station in NY. I will agree that if you are going to the west side within walking distance of Penn Station that it is now much easier to fly in/out of EWR. But for the rest of Manhattan, LGA is almost always more convenient.

As for the past "Great Decision," can someone enlighten me on exactly what happened. I thought that CAL got its presence in EWR by absorbing the bankrupt operations of PeoplExpress, which included the C Concourse and a lot of very old 737s. How did U make that happen? Or am I missing something here?

Tech, Back at the time of the Piedmont/USAir Merger, the Combined Ariline operated over 100 Mainline Jet Departures and over 125 Commuter Departures. In Terms of Departures we were EWRs Largest Carrier. PeoplExpress was the 2nd Largest flying mainly B727's by this time. In the Mid 90's, CO did Purchase the assets of EA (including the rights to the LGA Terminal),Frontier,New York Air and PeoplExpress. With everything going on over at CO they were hurting BIG TIME. Gordon was brought in (He was left out to dry because of the Good Old Boys club at USAir. USAir believed nothing was good at PSA or PI) and knew what EWR was and could be as he was very high up in Piedmont. Back to the Story, CO going head to head with U offered up a deal. They would end the CO LITE operation in GSO if U would pull down operations at EWR. Also part of the Deal was since U had taken over Management of the Trump Shuttle, CO offered U the SUB-LEASE on the LGA Terminal. U Management jumped at the Deal and the rest is history. EWR is now a very BIG Airport while LGA is what it is with its Perimiter Rules. I would say CO Management was brighter then U's.

 

[BoeingBoy]

In regard to yield, LGA Customer Service personnel recently told me that LGA has high yields and JFK very poor yields

Don't believe everything you hear....

In 4Q05, using identical cities served from both JFK & LGA, the average yield for domestic distances over 1000 miles was 16.08 cents for LGA and 14.74 cents for JFK. For distances under 1000 miles, it was 56.14 cents for LGA and 46.56 cents for JFK.

JFK yields are lower, due partly to B6's presence affecting fares and partly to the lower cost of operating there (remember those slots we're now paying Republic to use, for example). But "very poor yields" - hardly.

Jim

 

[LCC_#1]

Tech, Back at the time of the Piedmont/USAir Merger, the Combined Ariline operated over 100 Mainline Jet Departures and over 125 Commuter Departures. In Terms of Departures we were EWRs Largest Carrier. PeoplExpress was the 2nd Largest flying mainly B727's by this time. In the Mid 90's, CO did Purchase the assets of EA (including the rights to the LGA Terminal),Frontier,New York Air and PeoplExpress. With everything going on over at CO they were hurting BIG TIME. Gordon was brought in (He was left out to dry because of the Good Old Boys club at USAir. USAir believed nothing was good at PSA or PI) and knew what EWR was and could be as he was very high up in Piedmont. Back to the Story, CO going head to head with U offered up a deal. They would end the CO LITE operation in GSO if U would pull down operations at EWR. Also part of the Deal was since U had taken over Management of the Trump Shuttle, CO offered U the SUB-LEASE on the LGA Terminal. U Management jumped at the Deal and the rest is history. EWR is now a very BIG Airport while LGA is what it is with its Perimiter Rules. I would say CO Management was brighter then U's.

Couldn't had said it better. Thanks.

 

[Singleflyer]

I guess the service depends on where you are flying to. I often drive from the NJ side of the river and even downtown Neward to take a flight to MHT. There is plent of service. CO only has flight at about 3:30 PM, and about 10:00 PM an nothing in between. One to early for the business travel, and one to late for my liking.

Yes EWR does have the advantage of international flying, and no parimeter rule. But LGA probably has better service to the cities it can fly to than EWR, all airline combined.

 

[TechBoy]

Tech, Back at the time of the Piedmont/USAir Merger, the Combined Ariline operated over 100 Mainline Jet Departures and over 125 Commuter Departures. In Terms of Departures we were EWRs Largest Carrier. PeoplExpress was the 2nd Largest flying mainly B727's by this time. In the Mid 90's, CO did Purchase the assets of EA (including the rights to the LGA Terminal),Frontier,New York Air and PeoplExpress. With everything going on over at CO they were hurting BIG TIME. Gordon was brought in (He was left out to dry because of the Good Old Boys club at USAir. USAir believed nothing was good at PSA or PI) and knew what EWR was and could be as he was very high up in Piedmont.

But was U/PI operating EWR as a hub? Or did they just have a lot of duplicative flights to other hubs that were competing for the same traffic. A 6 hub airline just didn't make sense. PE, on the other hand, operated EWR as a hub of a sort, and CAL built on that.

Back to the Story, CO going head to head with U offered up a deal. They would end the CO LITE operation in GSO if U would pull down operations at EWR. Also part of the Deal was since U had taken over Management of the Trump Shuttle, CO offered U the SUB-LEASE on the LGA Terminal. U Management jumped at the Deal and the rest is history. EWR is now a very BIG Airport while LGA is what it is with its Perimiter Rules. I would say CO Management was brighter then U's.

Really? Or is this just rumor? If true, it sounds like anticompetitive collusion and the DOJ should have locked up some executives for it.

 

[shell nyc]

We are talking about a population base that goes beyond the biz traveler...millions of westside Manhattanites as well as New Jersey residents make EWR a money maker

I live on the UWS of Manhattan. Everyone I know in Manhattan other than those living in the financial distract would prefer to fly out of LGA. It's a quick cab ride or very cheap train/bus ride away from almost anywhere on the island.
I work in Northern NJ (Bergen County), and while most of my NJ coworkers are insistent on flying EWR, it's actually equidistant to EWR or LGA. After a long day, when it comes down to a 20 min ride home from LGA or 1+hrs from EWR, I'd choose LGA any day (with the price +/- ~$100.) I am, however, having an increasingly difficult time justifying to my corporate travel why I should take a connection from LGA (at least partly on USX) rather than a CHEAPER DIRECT flight on CO from EWR. Hard to argue these days...

 

[TheLarkAscending]

I would say CO Management was brighter then U's.

Absolutely agree. LaGarbage'ah - blech! 🙁

 

[Hope777]

Tech Asks, But was U/PI operating EWR as a hub?

No not a Hub. The O & D Market WAS supporting the operation. I would say More a Focus City. We did have some passengers making connections in EWR, but that was a very low percentage, less than 5% I would say. At our peak, it was not uncommon to have over 10,000 passengers booked daily out of EWR.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

I think I connected at EWR on PI once.

 

[TechBoy]

No not a Hub. The O & D Market WAS supporting the operation. I would say More a Focus City. We did have some passengers making connections in EWR, but that was a very low percentage, less than 5% I would say. At our peak, it was not uncommon to have over 10,000 passengers booked daily out of EWR.

It wasn't just O&D. It was also spokes for the U and PI hubs. As U consolidated hubs (which was totally necessary), it wouldn't make sense to have that many flights to EWR, unless you were running EWR as a hub. And once CO really put a hub together there, it was difficult to compete with that except to your own hubs. That is what happened at every hub market in the 90s.

 

[JS]

I have yet to see anyone mention the vast difference in customer service between EWR and LGA. Airline personnel, rental car personnel, and the TSA are worlds apart. I wouldn't fly out of Sewark unless you paid me.

EWR still gets lots of business because people would rather put up with the abuse in order to travel a shorter ground distance (if EWR is closer) or would rather fly non-stop and JFK is too far away.

If LGA had the room to expand, Sewark would return to the trash heap that it was (and still is but with more customers) when PeoplExpress fell apart.

 

[Hope777]

It wasn't just O&D. It was also spokes for the U and PI hubs. As U consolidated hubs (which was totally necessary), it wouldn't make sense to have that many flights to EWR, unless you were running EWR as a hub. And once CO really put a hub together there, it was difficult to compete with that except to your own hubs. That is what happened at every hub market in the 90s.

Tech, Basicly u shifted the operation to LGA. Many of the cities U flew/flies to, we once did from EWR. PI was considering starting Europe out of EWR but that all changed when Uncle Ed took over with his Mirror Image, Our way or the Highway!