Us Airways Pilots Call For Removal Of Siegel,cohen

I posted this on another thread but it was admittedly off-topic there and is more relevant over here:

I must say I don't quite understand all the hullaballoo over getting rid of Seigel. We have gone through our little paroxysms at UA too of "Throw the bum out!" And I have always asked of those advocating such a course of action, Who do you have waiting in the wings that would do a better job? Do you think that person would come in and say, "Great job guys-- even though we are losing gobs of money, here is a big raise 'just because' and to 'raise morale'" (that favorite rallying cry of the unions)?

Anyone who comes in will go through the predictable phases of a honeymoon period, soon followed by, as soon as they start talking about what will really be necessary to make the company a viable long-term entity, the cries to get rid of that person too. In the meantime, an atmosphere has been created that only very few people would want to step into because of the vitriol from the unions. So then the only way to attract someone qualified is to offer them an obscene compensation package-- thereby inviting even MORE criticism from the unions.

It is, beyond doubt, reprehensible and indefensible that Seigel chose a course of action to violate the CBAs which were already concessionary. But why do you think a new CEO would do any differently? It's the nature of the CEO beast, with only a few exceptions.

I think there was a very real danger that had Seigel not stepped up and done what he has done so far, U would not even be here today. But obviously his work is not done yet and U is still sick. More drastic measures are necessary.

It's nice to have a scapegoat and all, but do you really think a different CEO would tell you otherwise?
 
(Continuing the cut-and-paste from the other thread:)

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Response from Cavalier:

So your way of looking at it would be sometime like this: Ok well I know my surgeon messed up my surgery and now I need even more risky procedures and yet again with all the risks that comes with it plus I will need will to heal again. But what I am hoping for in this THIRD surgical procedure is success, and that success is based on blind faith using the same surgeon who bungled the first two attempts.

No this is not surgery, but it affects our lives much in the same way and for my money I want a new surgeon, new CEO before I take the risks again.
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Response to Cavalier:

Interesting surgeon analogy. But I would look at it a bit differently.

I was, and am, a very sick, high-risk patient. My GP gave up on me, so I found a high-priced specialist. He somehow pulled me out of immediate danger. But complications are to be expected with this type of procedure and now those complications are manifesting themselves and becoming serious. It is easy to blame the surgeon, but perhaps it is short-sighted considering the overall risks and how sick I am.

I suppose if there were another surgeon who I thought would do better, I would go to her. But I can't really think of who that would be. In addition, I am about to run out of insurance (the lenders are giving up), and I am known to be a very difficult patient (the union intransigence we are now seeing) and I complain loudly about my surgeon's compensation. So even if there were a more qualified surgeon out there, which is far from certain, I doubt she would want to take on my case. And even if she did, all the medical experts I have gone to are basically saying the same thing (cut, cut, cut), so I doubt she would follow a course of treatment significantly different from what Dr. Seigel is now doing.

OK sorry for beating that one to death. My main point is, if you know of someone out there willing to take on the job who would do something significantly different than Seigel, great! Go for it!

But I don't see that on the horizon. And just changing for the sake of change is often simply disruptive and distracting and counterproductive, as we have seen at UA with the however many CEOs we had in the months leading up to Tilton taking over.
 
PITbull said:
Anyone can run an airline into the ground. Our CEO is doing just that.

There are many capable folks who can operate an airline. Dave does not have the coner on airline CEOship. We have some very educated airline experts right on this property who know the system and how to effectively operate the airline. There are many in corporate america who can rise to the occasion.

Making $600,000 a year in CEO salary is very generous and well compensated in this kind of environment. Can attract the best.
Name ONE MAN ????????????????????? Are you serious that any half baked CEO wouldnt do thing s to piss you off? YOUre crazy dude if you think anyone would not do the same thing! There hasnt been one ceo yet you have liked we have had ?
 
Gosh usfliboi, how long have you been here? Back during the mergers, I remember all the "original" U folks that I came into contact with speaking fondly of their boss. Same for those that came from PSA. As for us that came from "Bubba country", we thought that Tom Davis, "Boss Hogg", and "Gordo" were pretty good.

Jim
 
We at PSA loved our bosses, J. Floyd Andrews, Bill Shimp, and of course Kenny Freidkin. But the last one Russell Ray, was a money man who didn't give one rats a$$ about the employees, wasn't labor friendly and probably fixed the books to make it look like we were losing money, shifted as much from PSA to PSA,Inc.
 
QUOTE (usfliboi @ Dec 18 2003, 07:04 AM)
So what talent is out there that the same people who have blamed every single ceo we have had since the merger for this airlines problems, that will pass "the test" and not cut further>? Any CEO will come and continue the cuts Plain and simple

Anyone can run an airline into the ground. Our CEO is doing just that.

There are many capable folks who can operate an airline. Dave does not have the coner on airline CEOship. We have some very educated airline experts right on this property who know the system and how to effectively operate the airline. There are many in corporate america who can rise to the occasion.

Making $600,000 a year in CEO salary is very generous and well compensated in this kind of environment. Can attract the best.




pitbull is the absolutely best looking DUDE I ever saw!!


I think you need to chill, DUDE
 
It appears lately the talent the airline has hired for "big guns" is equivalent to just rotating bald tires on your car. Nothing ventured nothing gained. I feel confident given some time I could find better talent (and with more integrity) to command the helm here.
 
PineyBob said:
You know pitguy I happen to agree with you. There is however a large But and i don't mean mine LOL. There wa one very key word in your post and it was TIME! Something that US has little of right now!

Perhaps Bronner is looking as we speculate. Let Dave see if he can pull a rsbbit out of the hat and if they go back into BK then Dave resigns and Bronner's hand picked person is there to pick up the pieces.
I think as was already suggested, an interim would do and show everyone they are listening and actually care about the employees concerns.
 
PSA1979 said:
We at PSA loved our bosses, J. Floyd Andrews, Bill Shimp, and of course Kenny Freidkin. But the last one Russell Ray, was a money man who didn't give one rats a$$ about the employees, wasn't labor friendly and probably fixed the books to make it look like we were losing money, shifted as much from PSA to PSA,Inc.
USAir employees loved our boss Edwin Colodney. He was a 25-year CEO, and acutally retired from U. He was a great CEO, who respected labor. Infact, that is where labor/management relationship started. Also, Gangwal in retorspect, was a businessman, but nonored his word to labor.

As Piney Bob said...."Better to have the devil you know; than the devil you don't know!

Gangwal, please come back!
 
Uncle eddie wasnot beloved by all ! Just because he was labor friendly does not make him an angel He didnt have to make the calls todays ceo have to make and i will recall as u very may well, the mech strike of 1989 and how ugly that got. When ceos have to make nasty difficult calls people call foul. Dave has made promises and for the most part has kept them . If you wanted a real labor unfriendly reorganization im sure he couldve given it to u back then but now you very well may see what unfriendly means. As i have said before be so very careful what you ask for you very well may get it !
 
USflyboi,

Hey genius, what planet do you inhabit???????

Dave kept/keeps promises??????? Like which one? Whose contract does or is he honoring, or don't they count in your mind's eye?

Even Senior Execs have contracts.
 
usfliboi,

Unless there was an IAM strike pre-merger, it happen after '90. That's when I was bumped to the 737-200 from the 727, and I was on the -200 when the strike happened. I distinctly remember that the company stopped flying the DC-9's during the strike so those guys got to stay home with pay while I was out working.

My statement still stands - at the time of the merger everyone I came into comtact with was pretty happy with their boss.

Jim
 
usfliboi said:
Uncle eddie wasnot beloved by all ! Just because he was labor friendly does not make him an angel He didnt have to make the calls todays ceo have to make and i will recall as u very may well, the mech strike of 1989 and how ugly that got. When ceos have to make nasty difficult calls people call foul. Dave has made promises and for the most part has kept them . If you wanted a real labor unfriendly reorganization im sure he couldve given it to u back then but now you very well may see what unfriendly means. As i have said before be so very careful what you ask for you very well may get it !
Flyboi, get your history straight.

The mechanic and related struck in October of 1992 after three years of negotiations and Seth Schofield was the CEO, not Ed Coldony.
 

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