US-Mexico ready to expand bilateral, opportunities

[WorldTraveler]

sources are reporting that the US and Mexico are close to a signing a new bilateral that will remove the 2 or 3 carrier limitations on carriers for each side between the US and Mexico and will also allow for JVs (not normally permitted without Open Skies which this agreement apparently does not include).

If true, this would be a big win for DL who is certain to start LAX-MEX and AM/DL who will likely apply for a JV.

 

[eolesen]

The sticking point on the JV will be the lack of Open Skies. That's something I could see Congress getting involved with.

 

[WorldTraveler]

the terms have not been made public but the US is apparently willing to grant the ability to have a JV without full Open Skies.

let's be honest that the US and Japan don't really have Open Skies if US carriers are relegated to flying to/from HND in the middle of the night; I expect the Japanese argument will be key to the Mexico deal if there are objections, esp. since the US traded very limited access to HND for 2 JVs.

the Mexico JV will be DL's advantage.

 

[eolesen]

HND all comes down to two things: slots and the airport's conscious decision to only allow domestic and short-haul international flying during peak hours.

The slot availability is no different than the challenges carriers face with LHR and JFK.

Given DL's position on Ex-Im and the uproar over the ME3, I think it would make an interesting position for DL to be promoting the Mexico agreement while taking a hard-line on the other two. Clearly, DL will put what's best for DL ahead of sound public policy.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, Japan consciously made the decision to block off HND access to US carriers. even when they added more slots, other countries had to negotiate improved access.

The US government, undoubtedly at DL's urging, said "thanks but no thanks" to better slot times.

the US gave AA and UA JVs in return for access to HND and open skies minus HND.

there is nothing more for the US to get in return that won't help Japanese carriers.


Mexico is not the same situation. DL will get a JV with AM but other US carriers can still get improved access to key Mexico markets.

as for the ME3, let's see how well AA's longhaul business looks at DFW after the invasion of the ME3... and DL's ability to keep them out of key DL int'l hubs

 

[topDawg]

sources are reporting that the US and Mexico are close to a signing a new bilateral that will remove the 2 or 3 carrier limitations on carriers for each side between the US and Mexico and will also allow for JVs (not normally permitted without Open Skies which this agreement apparently does not include).

If true, this would be a big win for DL who is certain to start LAX-MEX and AM/DL who will likely apply for a JV.

The JV is likely but I don't see Delta dumping capacity in-mass to Mexico. *If* they add anything they can't now I agree that it will be LAX-MEX along with JFK-CUN. 
 
DALPA be ready for that JV. too. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

I agree, dawg and those two routes are precisely two of the top markets that might be served.

not sure that DL might not have interest in a certain city from S. Florida to Mexico as well.

 

[metopower]

I agree with Dawag about the JV with AM....by the way the have an agreement on the V/DL JV....not announced as of yet .

 

[WorldTraveler]

meto,
are you referring to a pilot agreement regarding the DL/Virgin Atlantic JV?

 

[topDawg]

I agree, dawg and those two routes are precisely two of the top markets that might be served.

not sure that DL might not have interest in a certain city from S. Florida to Mexico as well.

and LAX-MEX is a big if IMO. I think that it is a route that is just going to get flooded with capacity. AA will add it for sure, I can see Virgin and Southwest also trying to add. 
 

I agree with Dawag about the JV with AM....by the way the have an agreement on the V/DL JV....not announced as of yet .

Good. 
Hopefully its has some kind of teeth 
 
in other words its nothing like the AF agreement that has no clear answer what happens after the 18 years it takes to prove the company is out of compliance 
 

meto,
are you referring to a pilot agreement regarding the DL/Virgin Atlantic JV?

yes. DALPA has been working on it for a while now.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, LAX-MEX will be a bloodbath.

and guess who will get hurt the most? AS

and guess who will have the best shot at making it work with a JV and feed on both ends? DL

looking forward to hearing the details of the VS JV agreement as well as any adjustments to other agreements.

 

[topDawg]

yes, LAX-MEX will be a bloodbath.

and guess who will get hurt the most? AS

and guess who will have the best shot at making it work with a JV and feed on both ends? DL

looking forward to hearing the details of the VS JV agreement as well as any adjustments to other agreements.

Delta could make LAX-CDG work too.....but why fly LAX-MEX when the lower cost AM can do it? 
 
and FWIW I'm not sure what other agreements your expecting change on.......
 
 
I really hope you are not foolish enough to think DALPA is just going to change the AF/KL agreement cause Delta wrote a check they cant cash. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL doesn't fly LAX-MEX because the brain trust that ran DL before Grinstein stopped flying the route and it can't be reentered until a new treaty is in effect.

AF could fly LAX-LHR too so what is your point?

KL could fly ATL-FCO so what is your point?

 

[topDawg]

DL doesn't fly LAX-MEX because the brain trust that ran DL before Grinstein stopped flying the route and it can't be reentered until a new treaty is in effect.

AF could fly LAX-LHR too so what is your point?

KL could fly ATL-FCO so what is your point?

I know how the fools in network/revenue management let the route go. (btw where did you work again?) 
 
And how did you miss my point? I'll try this again, why would the higher cost Delta fly LAX-MEX when AM can do it? 

 

[WorldTraveler]

I was in ATL but not N/RM.

why does DL fly any route if they can have a lower cost carrier fly it? DL could walk away from JFK-MEX and ATL-MEX today - AM has flown or does fly both. why DOES DL stay?