US Senate To Hold Hearing On Seniority System At TWA

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WASHINGTON (AP)--Airline and labor union officials will testify at a Senate hearing next week about the seniority system that left former Trans World Airlines Inc. employees among the first to be laid off during recent cutbacks at American Airlines, which purchased bankrupt TWA in 2001.
Sen. Kit Bond, R-Mo., called the hearing of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pension Committee, on which he serves.
We need to hear from the individuals involved why all the promises turned into pink-slips for so many, Bond said in a statement issued Thursday. While Congress cannot undo the damage, we can learn how to prevent this from ever happening to other workers elsewhere.
The committee issued a list of scheduled witnesses that includes former American Airlines Chief Executive Officer Don Carty and former TWA president and CEO Bill Compton. A former pilot, flight attendants and union officials also are listed as witnesses.
The hearing is set for 2 p.m. EDT (1800 GMT) Thursday.
 
If Congress can''t provide LLCers with relief then why hold these meetings in the first place.
Secondly, if your really bent on telling the whole truth, then you have to reexamine the issue of deregulation''s in the Airline industry as a whole.

Let''s bring in Alfred Kahn, Frank Lorenzo, and Carl Icahn
( talk about a tree-ring circus ) .
 
These hearings need to take place to ensure the same "fair and equitable" treatment isn''t used on another group of people.
 
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On 6/6/2003 9:59:37 PM AAquila wrote:

Let''s bring in Alfred Kahn, Frank Lorenzo, and Carl Icahn
( talk about a tree-ring circus ) .

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Why weren''t there any congressional hearings on these? Or is it okay for this stuff to happen again?

Maybe if congress had been serious here, there would have never been a bankrupt TWA and the buyout would have never happened.
 
What ever happened to "Last Hired, First to Go"?

Where are the congessional hearings for the original AAers getting laid off. We have mechanics hitting the street with more "actual" AA time than an ex TWAer. Not to open up old wounds, I understand the time that most TWAers dedicated to that airline, but what about those who hired on with AA through an application and interview process?
 
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On 6/7/2003 6:54:22 AM RV4 wrote:


Why dont they have a hearing or two on who the idiot was that purchased TWA to begin with.

Want to fix a problem? Go to the source!

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Like the man said, "Let''s not open old wounds!" But with this kind of attitude, maybe thtat''s why your A.M.F.A. drive is going nowhere here at MCI!!!!!
 
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On 6/6/2003 11:18:16 PM TWAB717 wrote:

These hearings need to take place to ensure the same "fair and equitable" treatment isn''t used on another group of people.

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What group of people?
 
And with your attitude, if you are truly part of the MCI group for mechanic and related, is similar to the of TUL. The line stations are ready to replace their current union representitive. It is only a matter of time before the mechanics at TUL and MCI will completely alienate the line mechanics. I respect that those of you who worked for the former TWA feel that your seniority means a great deal to you. However it was the TWU and the Kasher decesion that gave the majority of the TWA mechanics MCI only. It is the TWU that will determine your future, not a drive by the AMFA. To attack an AMFA organizer because he is fed up with his current uinon representitive is ingnorant of the total situation. There are thousands of AA/TWU members who voted to have you at TWA stapled to the bottom of the seniority list. I believe that RV4 was one of very few who openly took a position of dovetailing the TWA members, as did I. But I have to agree that especially from a financial perspective, it was a idiotic move. But that move was the fault of AA management not the former TWA employees. Another point to make is that it was only the TWU ground workers contracts that held to Allegheny-Mohawk, the Flight Attendants and Pilots did not. In fact as the MD-80''s are converted to AA specs, it is my understanding that for every aircraft coverted a flight crew is layed off?

The wounds are not fully healed, but that is because the TWU will keep them open.
 
First, it will be interesting to see if promises were kept. Second, as noted in the prehearing briefing, to keep it from happening again. Third, it will either add or subtract from the weight of the four lawsuits against APFA/AA by the F/As and the single lawsuit against APA/AA/ALPA by the pilots.
APFA will be giving its members the opportunity to vote on the "underfly" provision of the T/A. In exchange the F/As may substitute either longer duty hours (208) furloughs or sick pay rules and a smaller change in duty times (309) furloughs. It will be interesting to see how the membership is willing to vote knowing that they are furloughing more members with their votes. As they already eliminated furlough pay effecting the 1750 LLC F/As and a smaller number of the nAAtive F/As, they now have the opportunity to give the shaft to more of their own. Watch out for the fireworks.
And then again AA is going to publish two bid sheets for STL for July because they might lose a court case prohibiting any more furloughs of LLC F/As. As APFA accepted a fraudulent yes vote, this whole matter becomes a giant caldron of claims and counter claims. Remember that the Departmment of Labor has already declared a number of voting "irregularities" in the second yes vote.
 
Buck, Please don''t put us in the same box as the mechanics in TUL! Just because we may not support you''re A.M.F.A. drive here at MCI, doesn''t mean we support the T.W.U. either! My statement was "Let''s not open those old wounds"! Let''s just not go there! As long as the rest of A.A. perceives the employees of TWA as an unwanted liability, there will be no closure!
 
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On 6/7/2003 8:45:58 AM MCI transplant wrote:


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On 6/7/2003 6:54:22 AM RV4 wrote:



Why dont they have a hearing or two on who the idiot was that purchased TWA to begin with.

Want to fix a problem? Go to the source!

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Like the man said, "Let's not open old wounds!" But with this kind of attitude, maybe thtat's why your A.M.F.A. drive is going nowhere here at MCI!!!!!

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Yeah, the MCI Mechanics ALWAYS have some reason not to sign and get rid of the TWU. The number of excuses grows daily. The GOOD NEWS is that this activity is taking some of the heat off of Tulsa as being the TWU suck butts of the universe. You guys at MCI are publicly taking over the position of TWU Stooges and apparently with great valor.

The truth is, you are either part of the solution or you are advocating the problem. This wont change. The fact is, the purchase of TWA was an obviuos error, that wont change. Question is what are WE going to do from here on out?

If you enjoy being represented by the most docile union in the industry, and you want to use that as a negotiating tool. All I can say is this...

...Patience is our greatest virtue and you will pay dearly for such activity, not at the hands of AMFA Advocates, but at the hand of your own choice of a hostage weapon.

Quote from original post:

"While Congress cannot undo the damage, we can learn how to prevent this from ever happening to other workers elsewhere."
 
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On 6/7/2003 12:35:35 PM MCI transplant wrote:

Buck, Please don''t put us in the same box as the mechanics in TUL! Just because we may not support you''re A.M.F.A. drive here at MCI, doesn''t mean we support the T.W.U. either! My statement was "Let''s not open those old wounds"! Let''s just not go there! As long as the rest of A.A. perceives the employees of TWA as an unwanted liability, there will be no closure!

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I am from TUL and I am an AMFA organizer, however I have always respected seniority, unlike many today. When did I say anything about you supporting the AMFA drive from my point of view? I said that the line stations have just about had enough of TUL and if MCI is going to act like TUL then they are just as guilty. So you do not support the AMFA drive, you do not support the TWU, so as to not place words in your mouth, who or what do you support?

And I would like to know exactly what "old wounds" you are referring to?

As long as there is no closure, then the rest of the TWA employees must feel they have been cheated? I beg to differ, the TWU voted to staple you to the bottom of the list and Kasher gave MCI a strong seniority position and practically Red Circled the base. Your enemy the AMFA supports dovetailing and if that had been the result you may have ended up with a stronger seniority across the system and could have even bumped me. However my position is still to dovetail. Seniority is the main basis of unionism and it is all we have left.
 
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On 6/9/2003 9:08:41 AM atabuy wrote:

It seems to me that TWA was gasping it''s last breath when AA bought them.
For the employees of Twa, AA was their last chance from being on the street.

If they could have hung in until 9/11, that would have been the end of them for sure.
All TWA employees would have been on the street and looking for jobs. This means they would have started at the bottom. I think that is fair.

All unions can keep this from being an issue as far as seniority by putting a paragraph in their union book about union members being bought or merged with other carriers.

IMO, people make a choice of the airline they work for, not the union they belong to. So, if the airline they choose gets sold or merged, it is bad luck for them.
Why should union members of a successful airline suffer for the unsuccessful one.

Now if everyone wants to be listed by date of hire, then they would have to work out of a union hall, where they all belong to the same union, with all the same benefits, and might be working for any airline on any given day.

That would make all union members equal and true seniority would count.

I know some will disagree with this, but it would be the fairest way to proceed. Just think of the savings airlines could get with pilots working out of a hall.

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The TWU has this in their contract, it is called Allegheny-Mohawk.