USAPA/ALPA US Pilot Labor Thread 5/10-5/17

[ableoneable]

This isn't happening. You can try to convince yourself all you want, but it's not. Adult, mature pilots understand that this is a PRIVELEGE not to be trifled with.

As for the rest, think what YOU want. The tsunami is coming. ALPA is not on the property any longer, nor do I see it's return for the foreseeable future. Even if a merger takes place, both groups will ahve to agree on integration before an NMB election can take place. The ONLY reason it happened here was that BOTH sides were represented by ALPA, hence the "single representative" decision by the NMB. It won't occur like that if LCC merges with another carrier.

Yes it is happening.

I have carried pilots from both carriers. Without me bringing up the subject each indicated that they have been instructed by their LECs to look for either a PXXXX on the back of USAir ID or an ALPA card with an AWA designator.

Though I am sure others are not doing this there are a few.

A west pilot was recently denied on Alaska because he did not have an ALPA card with him.

With respect to your comments about an integration having to predate a representational election, you are simply wrong, a trait you have consistently exhibited.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Yes it is happening.

I have carried pilots from both carriers. Without me bringing up the subject each indicated that they have been instructed by their LECs to look for either a PXXXX on the back of USAir ID or an ALPA card with an AWA designator.

Though I am sure others are not doing this there are a few.

A west pilot was recently denied on Alaska because he did not have an ALPA card with him.

With respect to your comments about an integration having to predate a representational election, you are simply wrong, a trait you have consistently exhibited.

You think that they are going to risk losing their privelges on LCC just to help YOU out? YOU'RE DREAMING! Give me a name and flight number, then I'll believe you. IT'S NOT HAPPENING! There may be a hot head or two, but it's NOT OCCURRING like you say it is. I have many friends at ALL carriers, and they confirm as much.

You guys have quite an ego to think that the entire airline industry revolves around you.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Yes it is happening.

I have carried pilots from both carriers. Without me bringing up the subject each indicated that they have been instructed by their LECs to look for either a PXXXX on the back of USAir ID or an ALPA card with an AWA designator.

Though I am sure others are not doing this there are a few.

A west pilot was recently denied on Alaska because he did not have an ALPA card with him.

With respect to your comments about an integration having to predate a representational election, you are simply wrong, a trait you have consistently exhibited.

Must be your end having problems with jumpseating since the guys out East are not having problems.

The AMR guys are saying "about time you dumped ALPA" or " it has been almost 50 years since AMR voted ALPA off the property "

 

[AAA73Pilot]

The ONLY reason it happened here was that BOTH sides were represented by ALPA, hence the "single representative" decision by the NMB. It won't occur like that if LCC merges with another carrier.

Absolutely spot on. There were many hoops to jump through, but when both sides were ALPA, it only made it easier.

 

[ableoneable]

You think that they are going to risk losing their privelges on LCC just to help YOU out? YOU'RE DREAMING! Give me a name and flight number, then I'll believe you. IT'S NOT HAPPENING! There may be a hot head or two, but it's NOT OCCURRING like you say it is. I have many friends at ALL carriers, and they confirm as much.

You guys have quite an ego to think that the entire airline industry revolves around you.

What you think is not important.


Are you a pilot today?

Or is this your spouse?

Or has someone stolen your online identity?

Your apologists suggested all of these scenarios when you were caught truth bending the last time.

It is hard to tell as you change your story to suit your needs, i.e. you have no integrity at all.


I guess if you scream in caps that it is not happening it must not be. That is pretty compelling testimony.

"ITS NOT HAPPENING!!!"

It's not ego at all. Many other pilots just see USAPA and its supporters for what it is and they wish to steer well clear of you and your kind.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

you are simply wrong, a trait you have consistently exhibited.

All of the west posters keep saying we are wrong all the time. But yet it is happening. Maybe we're right and its .........well, you get the point.

 

[ableoneable]

Must be your end having problems with jumpseating since the guys out East are not having problems.

The AMR guys are saying "about time you dumped ALPA" or " it has been almost 50 years since AMR voted ALPA off the property "

As in many things;

"Your milage may vary."

 

[AAA73Pilot]

USAPA is really a bad joke isn't it. No wonder the company is laughing their asses off at you guys.

I hear you are up to six terminations so far.

How long is USAPA going to fight to get the BDL pilots' their jobs back before they give up and move on to "more pressing matters."

No joke, just reality. But in case you were a fly on the wall listening in with Parker and Bradford, well lets just say the company is not laughing. I am though.

If you say so. What's the breakdown? East West? I think there might be 2 more in the coming days. Guess from which side? Still love the doll routine. Ranks right up there with the goat video. With more serious consequences.

As long as it takes. BTW. If in fact they are off the line, they will be back.

 

[nycbusdriver]

2. The ASAP and FOQA agreements are not inherited, but that is "different."

ASAP and FOQA are different. The FAA is a signatory to those agreements as well as the company and the union, and they are not labor agreements that fall under RLA. Because of this, they had to be re-executed by all three parties.

And I wouldn't be concerned about how USAPA plans on "getting 1700 pilots fired" for non-payment. If I were making the decision (which I am not,) I would simply target about a dozen of the westie loudmouths for the first round of pursuits. A dozen is easy, well within budget, and ya gotta start SOMEWHERE. Then, when the loudmouths blink (or get deleted,) the point will be effectively made for the other 1688.

 

[ableoneable]

No joke, just reality. But in case you were a fly on the wall listening in with Parker and Bradford, well lets just say the company is not laughing. I am though.

If you say so. What's the breakdown? East West? I think there might be 2 more in the coming days. Guess from which side? Still love the doll routine. Ranks right up there with the goat video. With more serious consequences.

As long as it takes. BTW. If in fact they are off the line, they will be back.

So you are just a volunteer not an insider yet you "know" what Parker and Bradford discussed? Are you on the inside or not? Pick one story and try to stick to it.

The company is more concerned with dumb ass pilots trying to power a 73 through dirt than they are with a cabbage patch doll but believe what you wish.

I doubt that they will be back.

Bye the way how is the gunfighters retention hearing coming along?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

1. So you are just a volunteer not an insider yet you "know" what Parker and Bradford discussed? Are you on the inside or not? Pick one story and try to stick to it.

2. The company is more concerned with dumb ass pilots trying to power a 73 through dirt than they are with a cabbage patch doll but believe what you wish.

3. I doubt that they will be back.

4. Bye the way how is the gunfighters retention hearing coming along?

1. Yep. Just a volunteer. Like I have said in the past, if I want to get information I have no problem asking the leaders for it. It may not be a complete briefing, but its more than what you have, I guarantee that.

2. I will, and you can do the same.

3. Your opinion. But never the less they will be back.

4. Don't know. There is a limit to what I want to involve myself in. If you're so interested, why don't you do what I do and call the leadership. On this one, I'll wait for the results as it involves more than just the company.

 

[ableoneable]

ASAP and FOQA are different. The FAA is a signatory to those agreements as well as the company and the union, and they are not labor agreements that fall under RLA. Because of this, they had to be re-executed by all three parties.

And I wouldn't be concerned about how USAPA plans on "getting 1700 pilots fired" for non-payment. If I were making the decision (which I am not,) I would simply target about a dozen of the westie loudmouths for the first round of pursuits. A dozen is easy, well within budget, and ya gotta start SOMEWHERE. Then, when the loudmouths blink (or get deleted,) the point will be effectively made for the other 1688.

Thanks for an actual response.

On your first point I know and agree. My point is that the usual webboard response is to not answer any questions with direct answers, only hyperbole and sarcasm.

With respect to the non-payment situation. Why would the company be motivated to pick a few "loudmouths" and who would they pick.

This is not their fight. It is in managements best interest to keep both sides fighting. Because of this I expect them to do nothing to tip the balance one way or the other.

Watch management continue to go out of their way to keep the odds 50/50. If east is up, help the west, if west is up, help the east.

 

[ableoneable]

1. Yep. Just a volunteer. Like I have said in the past, if I want to get information I have no problem asking the leaders for it. It may not be a complete briefing, but its more than what you have, I guarantee that.

2. I will, and you can do the same.

3. Your opinion. But never the less they will be back.

4. Don't know. There is a limit to what I want to involve myself in. If you're so interested, why don't you do what I do and call the leadership. On this one, I'll wait for the results as it involves more than just the company.

So they gave you a complete briefing.

No spin, just the facts.


Gullible.

BTW when USAPA puts out BS like this:

Non-members remain responsible for keeping USAPA apprised of their current address.

masquerading as "fact" it is no wonder that they are considered idiots.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

With respect to the non-payment situation. Why would the company be motivated to pick a few "loudmouths" and who would they pick.

The company doesn't pick anything. Reread what I posted about dues. It says the union initiates the procedures. Failure by the company to follow up just opens the door for USAPA to collect via other avenues.

 

[700UW]

This actually happened at NW, the FAs CBA specificaly stated for the DCO part in the CBA was the IBT, NWA actually did not pay any dues money to the PFAA and was unable to get NW to take dues out of the FAs paychecks as the CBA was written only for the IBT and not any other union. The PFAA was nearly bankrupted and had to negotiate with NW to get the FAs on DCO.

And the language was written by no other then Jerry Glass.

The PFAA sued NW and did not win:

Then, in 2002, after PFAA was certified as the legal bargaining agent for the flight attendants, NWA announced that the Teamsters would continue to hold the seat on the board and an invitation to sit at the table would not be extended to the PFAA. Management claimed that the 1993 deal had been with the Teamsters’ Union, not with their employees! NWA also announced that their dues checkoff agreement had been with the Teamsters and that, if the PFAA wanted the dues checkoff, they would have to make financial concessions.

The PFAA refused and, for the duration of their presence on the property, they relied on the voluntary collection and contribution of dues. This became a sore point within the union when it became apparent that some of the former Teamster officials were choosing not to pay dues to the PFAA! By the way, no appeals to the National Labor Relations Board, the National Mediation Board, the Federal Aviation Agency or any government agency resulted in pressure on NWA management to deal respectfully with PFAA.

And guess who represented the PFAA in the court case, none other then Seeham!