Hopeful
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Venezuela cutting US airlines flights
- Thread starter Hopeful
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WingNaPrayer
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Talk about a crazy whack running the show! This guy Chavez is nuts. First he brings in Russian bombers, then, he expells the US Ambassador and now this? He's trying to segregate his people from the rest of the world. His recent attacks on Bush, claiming the US is trying to overthrow him are the last straw.
As much as I would hate to see AA loose any frequency to CrackAss, something tells me it soon won't be safe for Americans to fly into Venezuela while Chavez is in control.
Best guess, Chavez was trying to steal headlines on 9/11. It wouldn't surprise me if he blew something up in his own country, bigger and better than the towers, just so he can outshine the U.S.
As much as I would hate to see AA loose any frequency to CrackAss, something tells me it soon won't be safe for Americans to fly into Venezuela while Chavez is in control.
Best guess, Chavez was trying to steal headlines on 9/11. It wouldn't surprise me if he blew something up in his own country, bigger and better than the towers, just so he can outshine the U.S.
Hopeful
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And maybe invite Putin's Russia to put some military bases in Florida!
jimntx
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Chavez is using the time-tested approach that Castro has used for 50 years. I.E., keep the populace mad about something/someone outside the country. That way they my not notice that you (Castro/Chavez) are living in luxury while they are just barely fending off starvation.
Have any of you ever been to Venezuela? I have. The poverty is widespread and grinding for most of the population. The wealthy areas of Caracas are in gated communities. Literally, city streets shut off from public access are the norm. All of that oil wealth benefits the average Venezuelan not a whit. Oh, there are impressive public stadia and freeways, but the people are poor. It's a Republican paradise.
At least in the Arab oil states, a lot of the money trickles down to the populace in the form of schools and health care.
Have any of you ever been to Venezuela? I have. The poverty is widespread and grinding for most of the population. The wealthy areas of Caracas are in gated communities. Literally, city streets shut off from public access are the norm. All of that oil wealth benefits the average Venezuelan not a whit. Oh, there are impressive public stadia and freeways, but the people are poor. It's a Republican paradise.
At least in the Arab oil states, a lot of the money trickles down to the populace in the form of schools and health care.
Hopeful
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Maybe the US should reciprocate and ban ALL Venezuelan travel to and from the US. I would hate to see the average citizen pay the price, but Chavez is on his way to provoking an international incident justifying his stopping all oil shipments to the US, his number one customer.
jimntx
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The problem with that approach is while bringing Chavez to heel, the American public would have to put up with higher gas prices--we do buy a good bit of refined product from Venezuela. The American public is incapable of enduring belt-tightening/fiscal responsiblity of any kind regardless of the reason. "As long as I can afford to fill up the Suburban and the cable doesn't go out during American Idol, who cares about all that foreign stuff." 
And if McBush gets elected we will invade Venezuala, take over their oil and finally see $200/barrel.
I've never been to Venezuala but I suspect that the poverty that has been mentioned existed long before Chavez came to power. Are the poor better off now or worse? I dont know but he was elected and chosen by the people of Venezuala in elections that were monitored, unlike ours where Diebold determined one Bush election and the Supreme Court stacked with appointees of the candidatse party determined the other.
Before we invaded Iraq my standard of living was better, now energy costs have driven up all my costs and my standard of living has declined dramatically. Others, have been much less fortunate than I, like those who have been sent over to die in the Bush-Cheney Inc campaign. So while some die and some just suffer the select few, not neccisarily the "liberal elite" have seen their incomes swell.
Yep, invading Iraq sure worked out well for us!
There are plenty of countries with extreme inequities of wealth, however we usually dont care about any of that as long as the country is run by Capitalists. We justify the poverty in "friendly" read "pro-capitalist" countries by claiming that its the market in action and the poor are responsible for their prediciment. They choose to be poor. However Chavez preaches Socialism, that the God given resorces of the land belong to the people and should be used for the benift of the people. The few should not be able to confiscate what the earth provides and use it solely for their own benifit, and more importantly that foreigners should not be able to take what belongs to the people of Venezuala and use it solely for their benifit. That talk makes him the enemy of people in this country who feel that because we use more than we make we are entitled to what others have. Freedom, Democracy are nice catchwords but we dont invade other nations to make them democratic or free.
Demonze Chavez all you like, maybe he deserves it maybe he doesnt, but the reality is the more you demonize him the more you make other people around the world like him.
CubsFanJohn
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What a idoit Hugo Chavez is. I won't say what I call him. But I hope the US shoves this right back at him.
Bob, Chavez preaches that the resources of the land (oil) belong to the people but his actions contradict his words. He has been using the country's oil money to influence elections in other countries. When he took over in 1998 oil was averaging $11.91 a barrel, a historic low. It has steadily increased since then. Recently, oil traded at $140 a barrel and is now trading at around $100 per barrel. Given these numbers, one would think that every Venezuelan would have 4 bedroom 2 bath house with a cadillac in the driveway, top notch free healthcare, and the best schools. The fact is that poverty has increased (and there is no US embargo on Venezuela), and only a select few of Chavez's associates share in the oil bonanza.
As far as Cuba goes, before Castro, Cuba had one of the highest standards of living in Latin America. In fact, some sources claim they were number 3 (behind the U.S. and Venezuela). Now, as has been the case for the last couple of decades, people are willing to risk their lives crossing 90 miles of shark infested waters on a piece of styrafoam in order to leave the "worker's paradise". Castro and Chavez made it to the top by claiming to have all the answers and by blaming the "yanqui". Blaming the yanqui for all the problems in Latin America resonates very well in that region; even though we have had nothing to do with Cuba for half a century.
I'll admit that I dont know much about the internal conditions of Venezuela but isnt the country still a Democracy? I would guess that Chavez faces considerable internal opposition from the wealthy in his country based upon the failed coup a while back. So maybe he doesnt have the power of a dictataor and must work with whats in place. Like I said I'm guesssing based on news reports I've read here. As far as the price of oil we hear conflicting reports, lately there has been a lot of hype that speculators drove the price up to those record highs, so maybe the speculators were getting $140 and the suppliers, OPEC etc were getting considerably less? We know that the oil companies were posting record profits which means that not only were any increases in costs just passed on but they added a bit more to swell up their bottom lines as well.
You should brush up on your History.
http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/resources/interventions.html
http://www.zompist.com/latam.html
As you can see we have launched well over 50 invasions on our Latin neighbors. Any resentment felt towards the US from them is probably somewhat justified. They tried to be like us but American mining, agricultural and other corporations had other plans. They would rather have corrupt dictators that they controlled, propped in place by the US military, in place than have to deal with democratic governments that would demand that the will of the people be carried out.
To say that we have had nothing to do with Cuba for 50 years is tottally incorrect, we have been waging an economic war against Cuba for the last 50 years.
The US has made many great accomplishments. The Bill of rights, Democracy, tremendous advances in science and technology and taking the rejects of the world and with them making the greatest superpower the world has ever seen. Yes we have much to be proud of, but we should make sure we are aware of our mistakes so we dont repeat them over and over again.
What we did to Allende was immoral, hypocritical and criminal.
WingNaPrayer
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And to think I used to like when he would badmouth Bush-2.
Now he just comes off as spoiled and childish. Something makes me further wonder if he is attempting to break his US contracts, so he can sell to Russia and China at much higher prices, which they are both willing to pay since they both have money dripping from their bank accounts and nowhere to spend it.
When will Uncle Sam learn that bolstering another country's economy in lieu of our own, just to make a faux friend (when they really aren't) is never a good idea!
American government buys too many friends, all of whom end up at the exchange counter with our weapons pointed right at us!
Now he just comes off as spoiled and childish. Something makes me further wonder if he is attempting to break his US contracts, so he can sell to Russia and China at much higher prices, which they are both willing to pay since they both have money dripping from their bank accounts and nowhere to spend it.
When will Uncle Sam learn that bolstering another country's economy in lieu of our own, just to make a faux friend (when they really aren't) is never a good idea!
American government buys too many friends, all of whom end up at the exchange counter with our weapons pointed right at us!
eolesen
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Gee, I'm agreeing with Wing for a change...
Too bad we gave up the canal. I don't see Panama denying Hugo's tankers the short way over to China....
When I went to CCS in 1994, it was a rathole along the lines of Haiti.
Chavez is in his second six-year term (term limited per the constitution, unless he changes it). Whether or not he steps down in 2010 is yet to be seen.
Too bad we gave up the canal. I don't see Panama denying Hugo's tankers the short way over to China....
When I went to CCS in 1994, it was a rathole along the lines of Haiti.
Chavez is in his second six-year term (term limited per the constitution, unless he changes it). Whether or not he steps down in 2010 is yet to be seen.
Waging an economic war against Cuba for 50 years? Shortly after coming to power, Castro confiscated American owned assets which were worth billions; the largest asset loss in American history. This included land, small and medium sized businesses owned by Americans, as well as losses suffered by U.S. corporations. When the U.S. traded with Cuba , it was blamed for most of their problems. The left pi$$ed themselves with great joy at the American loss. Now, we are blamed for their problems by the left because we are NOT trading with them. Well, which is it? Given the losses suffered by Americans, the U.S. is completely within it's legal right not to do business with Cuba. Cuba can buy anything it wants from any other country in the world. However, food and medicine are exempt from the embargo. If Cuba had enough cash, it could purchase every last pill and scrap of food in the U.S. The U.S. is Cuba's leading food supplier and it's 5th largest trading partner overall. The U.S. makes them pay cash up front because they won't extend them credit. Every country that has extended them credit has gotten burned; Cuba takes the goods on credit and then simply doesn't pay and the taxpayers of those countries end up footing the bill.
Now your blaming the U.S. for what happened to Allende? He either committed suicide, was shot by his own army; some even say a Castro supplied body guard did him in.
Hopeful
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If you remember, Chavez lost that referendum for unlimited terms in December of last year. The people voted against him on that. We have to continually listen to his anti-American rants while the US basically stays mum. He is looking to provoke an international incident to justify cutting off shipments to the US even thought we are his number one customer.
