Venezuela cutting US airlines flights

[Hopeful]

Waging an economic war against Cuba for 50 years? Shortly after coming to power, Castro confiscated American owned assets which were worth billions; the largest asset loss in American history. This included land, small and medium sized businesses owned by Americans, as well as losses suffered by U.S. corporations. When the U.S. traded with Cuba , it was blamed for most of their problems. The left pi$$ed themselves with great joy at the American loss. Now, we are blamed for their problems by the left because we are NOT trading with them. Well, which is it? Given the losses suffered by Americans, the U.S. is completely within it's legal right not to do business with Cuba. Cuba can buy anything it wants from any other country in the world. However, food and medicine are exempt from the embargo. If Cuba had enough cash, it could purchase every last pill and scrap of food in the U.S. The U.S. is Cuba's leading food supplier and it's 5th largest trading partner overall. The U.S. makes them pay cash up front because they won't extend them credit. Every country that has extended them credit has gotten burned; Cuba takes the goods on credit and then simply doesn't pay and the taxpayers of those countries end up footing the bill.

Now your blaming the U.S. for what happened to Allende? He either committed suicide, was shot by his own army; some even say a Castro supplied body guard did him in.

Well, there are those here who's hatred of Bush actually blinds their reasoning. If the "idiot" Bush wanted to, Venezuela could be taken over by US forces in an afternoon following a late lunch. In this situation, Chavez the red-clad pimp, is reacting on behalf of other latin american nations. He seeks to become the communist patron saint after castro is dead and gone.

Contrary to the anti American sentiment, the US has its faults but is not always wrong.
The US has been nothing less than "polite" to this maniac.

 

[Vortilon]

I'll admit that I dont know much about the internal conditions of Venezuela but isnt the country still a Democracy? I would guess that Chavez faces considerable internal opposition from the wealthy in his country based upon the failed coup a while back. So maybe he doesnt have the power of a dictataor and must work with whats in place. Like I said I'm guesssing based on news reports I've read here. As far as the price of oil we hear conflicting reports, lately there has been a lot of hype that speculators drove the price up to those record highs, so maybe the speculators were getting $140 and the suppliers, OPEC etc were getting considerably less? We know that the oil companies were posting record profits which means that not only were any increases in costs just passed on but they added a bit more to swell up their bottom lines as well.




You should brush up on your History.

http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/resources/interventions.html
http://www.zompist.com/latam.html
As you can see we have launched well over 50 invasions on our Latin neighbors. Any resentment felt towards the US from them is probably somewhat justified. They tried to be like us but American mining, agricultural and other corporations had other plans. They would rather have corrupt dictators that they controlled, propped in place by the US military, in place than have to deal with democratic governments that would demand that the will of the people be carried out.

To say that we have had nothing to do with Cuba for 50 years is tottally incorrect, we have been waging an economic war against Cuba for the last 50 years.

The US has made many great accomplishments. The Bill of rights, Democracy, tremendous advances in science and technology and taking the rejects of the world and with them making the greatest superpower the world has ever seen. Yes we have much to be proud of, but we should make sure we are aware of our mistakes so we dont repeat them over and over again.

What we did to Allende was immoral, hypocritical and criminal.
[/quote



C'mon Bob, You're starting to sound like a spokesman for Hugo. Your posted links regarding US incursions into Latin America are one sided as well - consider the sources. I am so tired of America hating apologists whining about how mean America is and was - it makes me want to puke. <_<

 

[Bob Owens]

Waging an economic war against Cuba for 50 years? Shortly after coming to power, Castro confiscated American owned assets which were worth billions; the largest asset loss in American history. This included land, small and medium sized businesses owned by Americans, as well as losses suffered by U.S. corporations.

And it doesnt sound a little bit odd that all that stuff in Cuba was owned by Americans and not Cubans? I remember a few years back when there was a lot of concern over Japanese ownership of things in America-most Americans didnt like it, and Japan didnt interfere with our politics like Americans did in Cuba.

When the U.S. traded with Cuba , it was blamed for most of their problems. The left pi$$ed themselves with great joy at the American loss. Now, we are blamed for their problems by the left because we are NOT trading with them. Well, which is it? Given the losses suffered by Americans, the U.S. is completely within it's legal right not to do business with Cuba.

Well as a so called "Free American" you cant do business with Cuba. This is a government decree, not the choice of individual Americans. You dont find it odd that we can do all sorts of business with Communist China but not Communist Cuba? Cuba insults our Presidents so we cant do business with them, China steals millions of jobs from US workers but they get MFN status.

Now your blaming the U.S. for what happened to Allende? He either committed suicide, was shot by his own army; some even say a Castro supplied body guard did him in.

Its common knowledge that the US endorsed the coup.

Vortilon
I am so tired of America hating apologists whining about how mean America is and was - it makes me want to puke.

Its not about hating America, its about hating what some people do in our name. Go ahead and wave the flag thats supposed to represent Freedom and Democracy but think like a Nazi in that any opinion that you dont agree with is treason. The fact is the people who are responsible for the bad things that are done in the name of America overseas are the same people that are responsible for doing bad things to working families here at home.

 

[Edward]

😱ff: This needs to go back to the orig. topic or it's going to "the cooler".

 

[aafsc]

And it doesnt sound a little bit odd that all that stuff in Cuba was owned by Americans and not Cubans? I remember a few years back when there was a lot of concern over Japanese ownership of things in America-most Americans didnt like it, and Japan didnt interfere with our politics like Americans did in Cuba.



Well as a so called "Free American" you cant do business with Cuba. This is a government decree, not the choice of individual Americans. You dont find it odd that we can do all sorts of business with Communist China but not Communist Cuba? Cuba insults our Presidents so we cant do business with them, China steals millions of jobs from US workers but they get MFN status.




Its common knowledge that the US endorsed the coup.



Its not about hating America, its about hating what some people do in our name. Go ahead and wave the flag thats supposed to represent Freedom and Democracy but think like a Nazi in that any opinion that you dont agree with is treason. The fact is the people who are responsible for the bad things that are done in the name of America overseas are the same people that are responsible for doing bad things to working families here at home.

Bob, Americans were somewhat apprehensive of Japanese holdings in this country. However, we were NEVER going to seize Japanese assets because we respect private property rights in this country. If by some fluke we did seize their assets we would have compensated the Japanese for those assets. In Cuba, they just took the assets and that was it. One day it was legal for Americans to own property there; they next day it wasn't.

As far as doing business with communist China and not with communist Cuba, there is a world of difference.

1. China compensated Americans for seized assets, Cuba has not.

2. Even though China is communist, they do allow capitalism, Cuba does not.

3. China pays it's creditors; Cuba does not. As stated earlier, the U.S will not conduct normal trade with Cuba (extend credit) because it knows it will never get paid. Would you sell your services to American Airlines if you knew that you were not going to get paid?

The U.S. may have "endorsed" the coup against Allende but so what? You "endorsed" the AMFA strike against NWA and I am pretty sure you "endorse" the current strike against Boeing. A person (or country) can endorse something without participating in or perpetrating the event.

As far as flights to Venezuela are concerned, given Chavez's increasing hostile rhetoric, there very well could be no flights (or oil for that matter)between the U.S and Venezuela in the not to distant future. It would be sad if this happened because the Venezuelan flights are almost always full.

 

[Ralph]

Ok, this thread is going to the Cooler. It's not about American Airlines and the effect of the forced schedule reductions on the airline or its passengers. It's about World Politics. See you in the Water Cooler.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, Americans were somewhat apprehensive of Japanese holdings in this country. However, we were NEVER going to seize Japanese assets because we respect private property rights in this country.

Tell that to the American Indians.

As far as doing business with communist China and not with communist Cuba, there is a world of difference.

1. China compensated Americans for seized assets, Cuba has not.

I dont think so. When China went Communist they refused to honor hundreds of millions of bonds that were issued by Chaing Kia Shekas it is now WE owe China. I think China is one of the biggest holders of US debt.

2. Even though China is communist, they do allow capitalism, Cuba does not.

So the issue not Freedom or Democracy its greed. At least you see it for what it is however I doubt that many kids from poor neighborhoods, you know, the ones that fill the ranks in the military would be too enthusiastic if they were told flat out that they were dying for the rights of Capitalists and not for Freedon and Democracy.

3. China pays it's creditors; Cuba does not. As stated earlier, the U.S will not conduct normal trade with Cuba (extend credit) because it knows it will never get paid. Would you sell your services to American Airlines if you knew that you were not going to get paid?

Thats not true and you know it. The US prohibits US citizens from spending more than $195 a day. If what you are saying is true then the US should encourage Americans to charge away in Cuba then stop the uS based credit card companies from paying Cuba.

The U.S. may have "endorsed" the coup against Allende but so what? You "endorsed" the AMFA strike against NWA and I am pretty sure you "endorse" the current strike against Boeing. A person (or country) can endorse something without participating in or perpetrating the event.

I guess Bin Laden would like that arguement too.

As far as flights to Venezuela are concerned, given Chavez's increasing hostile rhetoric, there very well could be no flights (or oil for that matter)between the U.S and Venezuela in the not to distant future. It would be sad if this happened because the Venezuelan flights are almost always full.

So when US leaders call for a rebellion against Chavez thats not hostile.

Chavez apparently likes the Drama, I just enjoy seeing a leader who doesnt lick Bush's boots. Most of his jibes are aimed directly at Bush and not the US as a whole. When Chavez donated millions in oil to heat the homes of poor American citizens whose own government was too busy granting corporate welfare and cutting taxes on the richest Americans to help I thought it was a great stunt. The rich tried to make it seem unpatriotic to accept the oil, instead they should have gone cold while the rich partied with the spoils of Bush's victories.

The fact is these things grab headlines, Chavez seems to like that but I doubt that nhe really wants to stop selling us oil or stop travel between the two countries.

 

[777 fixer]

So when US leaders call for a rebellion against Chavez thats not hostile.

When has the US called for open rebellion in Venezuela?

 

[777 fixer]

Chavez apparently likes the Drama, I just enjoy seeing a leader who doesnt lick Bush's boots. Most of his jibes are aimed directly at Bush and not the US as a whole.

Chavez probably has a martyrdom complex. I get this sneaking suspicion that he would like nothing more than for the US to invade. Then he could go out in a blaze of glory leading his army. The best way for the US to handle him is to do absolutely nothing. Eventually people there will get tired of him.

If you think Hugo just has a problem with Bush think again. Hugo was one of the few leaders in the world that opposed the US taking action in Afghanistan. What does that have to do with Bush? When he talks about cutting off oil shipments he does not say he would cut off shipments to Bush. He says he will cut off shipments to the USA. We all know who that would affect, and it's not Bush. Some people seem to like Chavez just because he's critical of Bush. That's not a very good reason. If they were to dig a little deeper they would see Chavez for what he is.

 

[777 fixer]

The fact is these things grab headlines, Chavez seems to like that but I doubt that nhe really wants to stop selling us oil or stop travel between the two countries.

Not with over 10000 Citgo stations in the USA. Most of Venezuela’s tanker fleet built for the short trip across the Gulf of Mexico, not for long oceanic voyages. The type of oil pulled form the ground there requires specialized refineries, the type found here in the US. So no he probably won't do it. Not because he worries how that would affect people here. Because he knows he would be committing suicide.