vote no for twu agreement

amerigojfk

Newbie
Jan 25, 2003
12
0
www.usaviation.com
what a joke our so called union brings back to us
we are better off with the company filing chapter 11 and letting the judge decide
ch. 11 is temporary
concessions are for 6 years
you do the math
it is time for new union leadership
 

AAquila

Senior
Sep 22, 2002
357
0
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On 4/2/2003 8:11:06 AM amerigojfk wrote:

it is time for new union leadership

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True; it's time for new leadership, but the unions (all) have their backs to the wall on this one. New leadership in Washington is needed first. Deregulation has failed, JBLU and LUV strive, but America still needs a full service airline for the future, that airline is AMR.

The glory and glamour days are gone for the airline industry. So you better learn a new trade, or profession my friend. A new single act of terrorism, could make the entire industry fold. Just a recent mention of SARS at AMR yesterday and Wall Street shuttered yesterday.

The door to door fighting toward Baghdad followed by an occupation force of US GIs means many months of Americans staying home, so you can write off the next two years of any improvements.

Carty's 2006 forecasts are on target. Better tighten up that belt, Buddy.

VOTE YES on Carty, and NO on BUSH.
 

Hopeful

Veteran
Dec 21, 2002
5,998
347
AAQuila:
You have got to be kidding me! These piece of crap proposals are the exact same reasons unions came to power in the first place. I''ll take my chances with a bankruptcy court. This way the judge can see AMR management for what it is: Union Busting Class Warfare mongers!
 

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
301
miami
goldwatermiller08.com
You are all messed up. You have a union you hate but cant vote out of. You claim lack of proper representation. You cant fix your own house. You think a BK judge is going to be your savior?

The cuts they make will not be temporary. They will be permanent, unless you negotiate with AA for otherwise.

Every contract will be open. The company will be in the position to return any A/C they dont need or want. The ones they keep they will negotiate a lease at drastically low rates. Those rates wont be for 4 or 6 years. They will be for the life of the lease. AA will tell any bank or institution take it or leave it. The judge will care no more for there well being than for YOURS. The judge''s only job is to assist restructuring the company.
 

twaokc

Senior
Aug 19, 2002
336
0
OKC
Bob,

No, I am talking about work rules, hourly pay, hours of service, putting up with part time. You know, you have really had it bad hiding under the coat tails of a union....
 

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
6,112
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On 4/2/2003 12:52:28 PM FA Mikey wrote:

The cuts they make will not be temporary. They will be permanent, unless you negotiate with AA for otherwise.

Every contract will be open. The company will be in the position to return any A/C they dont need or want. The ones they keep they will negotiate a lease at drastically low rates. Those rates wont be for 4 or 6 years. They will be for the life of the lease. AA will tell any bank or institution take it or leave it. The judge will care no more for there well being than for YOURS. The judge's only job is to assist restructuring the company.


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Where are you getting your information from? The company?

You're right. Every other contract will be open, except labor contracts which must be handled differently. So, like you said the company can renegotaite all their other deals first, before they come to us. The leased cars for the executives gone. Country club fees, gone. The fee for having American Airlines stuck to the sides of Sports Arenas and Movie THeaters gone. The Contruction contracts on projects like the JFK terminal that were struck during the construction boom, gone. In those cases there is no test of good cause, he can just cancell them. With labor its different, there has to be good cause for rejection. The fact that Unionized employees are being told to accept six years of cuts while management and other non-union workers could see their compensation restored in a year or less is not equal treatment. We have lots of reasons that constitute "good cause" for rejection. And thats all we need.

Oh, by the way do some of the banks that AA is going to dictate to also loan money as well as owning airplanes?

Yo're right in that the Judges primary responsibilty is the creditors interest. But, if XYZ bank feels that they got screwed under the terms of the lease will the airplane that is leased perform any differently? as a mechanic I can tell you NO. It will perform the same. However if the employee feels that he has been screwed by the Judge, the company, or even the Union will his performance be affected? As a mechanic I can give you that answer too. More than likely. If you dont believe me ask Gordon Bethune. Gordon Bethune wrote about this in his book, "from worst to first". He said something to the effect 'You dont want to piss off your mechanics, because if you do you wont get your airplanes. They will work on it alright, but they wont fix it and there isnt much you can do about it'.
 

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
301
miami
goldwatermiller08.com
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On 4/2/2003 1:30:13 PM Bob Owens wrote:

If you dont believe me ask Gordon Bethune. Gordon Bethune wrote about this in his book, "from worst to first". He said something to the effect ''You dont want to piss off your mechanics, because if you do you wont get your airplanes. They will work on it alright, but they wont fix it and there isnt much you can do about it''.


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Gordon Bethune is blow hard. But sorry if he is your hero, my apologies. Let me see if I understand, AA''s treat of layoffs and the contract cuts are basically extortion, and that''s not OK. But for mechanics it is OK to extort to hold airplanes and the company hostage to your wants. Now we see how you work. Thanks bob.
 

twaokc

Senior
Aug 19, 2002
336
0
OKC
Bob Owens,

Sounds to me like you need to get rid of your union and just let management tell you what you are going to take, kind of like the agents and management..They were told and they are not taking as big of a cut as you are, then again they did not have everything that you have now....
 

WXGuesser

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
234
0
www.usaviation.com
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On 4/2/2003 8:48:41 AM Hopeful wrote:

AAQuila:
You have got to be kidding me! These piece of crap proposals are the exact same reasons unions came to power in the first place. I'll take my chances with a bankruptcy court. This way the judge can see AMR management for what it is: Union Busting Class Warfare mongers!

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Do you really think a JUDGE will give a flying F%^& at a rolling donut about anyone being a Union Busting Class Warfare monger? Guess what? That judge is going to look at the unions coming saying "We're poor! We're being abused! We're being put in the poorhouse!" And then he's going to look at a whole lot of the employees who MAKE ALMOST AS MUCH AS HE DOES and go "Pigeon Pellets!" Do you know what a bankruptcy judge makes a year?

28 USC § 153. Salaries; character of service
(a) Each bankruptcy judge shall serve on a full-time basis and shall receive as full compensation for his services, a salary at an annual rate that is equal to 92 percent of the salary of a judge of the district court of the United States as determined pursuant to section 135 [28 U.S.C. 135], to be paid at such times as the Judicial Conference of the United States determines.


According to a 1999 Congressional Budget office memorandum, District Court judges make $136,700. So a bankruptcy judge, with all his schooling and legal training makes about $126,000. You think he is going to look at the salary of a topped out AMT or dispatcher or meteorologist or heaven forbid pilot, and say "Yes, you should make this significantly high amount of money."

Face it, this ain't the days of workers making forty cents an hour eighty hours a week shopping at the company store. The man or woman in the robe ain't gonna have no sympathy for us...

TANSTAAFL
 

AAmech

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
766
1
Whats scary is they REALLY REALLY belive the BK judge is going to save them!! It would be funny if our careers wer''nt on the line. Ignorance is truly bliss!!
 

RV4

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,885
80
www.usaviation.com
Living life and making decisions based on fear is far worse than ignorance.

At least the ignorant can be excused for their own self destruction. In contrast those that are not ignorant but are instead cowards are not worthy of a decent standard of living.

Non-ignorant FEAR based Americans are prime targets for terrorist and will be trampled by there own fearful minds.

Why do we watch others fight the battles, reap the rewards of their fights, and then return the favor with voluntary concessions that reverse all battles won?

I am ashamed to be associated with those cowering to fear.

What exactly is a worthy fight to you cowards out there advocating YES votes anyway? What would it take to qualify your values as BRAVE?

Just as people get the representation they deserve, so do they also get the paycheck they deserve and fight to keep.
 

AAmech

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
766
1
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On 4/2/2003 1:30:13 PM Bob Owens wrote:

However if the employee feels that he has been screwed by the Judge, the company, or even the Union will his performance be affected? As a mechanic I can give you that answer too. More than likely. If you dont believe me ask Gordon Bethune. Gordon Bethune wrote about this in his book, "from worst to first". He said something to the effect ''You dont want to piss off your mechanics, because if you do you wont get your airplanes. They will work on it alright, but they wont fix it and there isnt much you can do about it''.


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Isn''t much they can do about it? Are you kidding me! You''ve been in the cushy AA world too long Bob. Once that Judge is thru with us who knows what protections we will have? For all we know we could come out of this as At-Will employees and they''ll start walking the slackers out the door!
 
Aug 20, 2002
10,018
675
www.usaviation.com
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On 4/2/2003 8:48:41 AM Hopeful wrote:

AAQuila:
You have got to be kidding me! These piece of crap proposals are the exact same reasons unions came to power in the first place. I''ll take my chances with a bankruptcy court. This way the judge can see AMR management for what it is: Union Busting Class Warfare mongers!

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__________________________________________________________
Hopeful;
I''m with ya'' 99.9% of the time. And I think you know that.

But these votes are a "no brainer"

"AND THAT DOES"NT MEAN I SUPPORT CARTY ON THIS !!!!!!!!
(In fact, I''M "NOT EVEN VOTING") !!!!!!!!!!

But the stock is up to $4.25 already.

I really don''t think It''s gonna'' be difficult to get a 50% +1 vote, from all 3 unions.

Hopeful,
If I''m wrong, you''ll be the FIRST one that I publicly admit(I was wrong), to.

Regards,
NH/BB''s
 

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