Vote Republican or Die!

[KCFlyer]

Maybe if you can't find anything of substance to write you can just cut and paste the New Testament for a reply. I reckon that would pretty much cover everything.

I think if he posted the New Testament, about a third of the way through it, he might realize what Christianity is all about. I have an idea he'll stick to the old testament.

 

[Flying Titan]

I expect no less from you KC, to quote a former Nazi and compare our leadership to such is quite telling indeed. 😉

Too bad you won't address the substance of the quote and the chilling similarities in approach.

Same goes for you 700IAM.

 

[Garfield1966]

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials


I think you guys are missing the point on the use of this quote. I do not think anyone is comparing W to Hitler. At least I hope not. My wifes family are all survivors of the Holocaust. I have heard stories that keep me awake at night. Hitler was a one of a kind (I hope) with no equal.

When I look at the quote I look at the last sentence as being the most important and relevant to this day and age. This is exactly what W and company have done with Iraq. They have turned this into a "your with us or against us". I believe W actually used that exact quote at one time. He has convinced people that if you do not support him / the war / the ‘course’ that you do not support the troops and that you are unpatriotic. He has divided this nation into an us verses them. He is making dissent unpatriotic. That is very disturbing. Because I vehemently disagree with his policies and beliefs does not make me unpatriotic. There are many shades of gray and to turn this into a simple A or B type question is a disservice to this country and I find it obscene.

The comparison, if any comes from the similarity of the tactics used by both.

 

[700IAM]

Same goes for you 700IAM.

I said more than enough loud enough and strong enough for even a total moron to comprehend. If you didn't get it, well I guess you were dealt less the rest of us. Even Jesus acknowledged such things when addressing the reason for the blind man, same goes for intelligence and understanding. I guess your measure was small, not my doing take it up with the big guy.

 

[local 12 proud]

Too bad you won't address the substance of the quote and the chilling similarities in approach.

Same goes for you 700IAM.

What substance? you and KC compare our current administration to Nazi, Germany and expect me to respond?

No Im left with my jawed dropped, wondering how any American could make such a statement about its own Government.

My heart is heavy for this Nation!

 

[Flying Titan]

This substance...

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

Perhaps it would have been better if the original post didn't include the fact that Goering said it...because this seems remarkably similar to the political tactics that have been employed by W in recent years.

Catch-phrases like - "appeaser", "cut and run", "coward" (remember John Murtha?), etc. are central to W's strategy to beat down anyone who would dare stand up and oppose the war in Iraq.

Again, you're so quick to be offended because it hits a little too close to home. It's much easier to cry foul than refute the similarities to the tactics outlined in the quote. To read posts from you and 700IAM, you would think that the rest of us on this board are just trying to drive this administration to hell...But to paraphrase Truman - we're just telling the truth and you just think it's hell!

 

[KCFlyer]

What substance? you and KC compare our current administration to Nazi, Germany and expect me to respond?

No Im left with my jawed dropped, wondering how any American could make such a statement about its own Government.

My heart is heavy for this Nation!

Only thing I am comparing is what Goering said about leading a nation to war. You still haven't pointed out anything to refute what Goering said. Ignore the speaker...just read the words and tell me how what the Bush administration and Bush supporters are different.

 

[Ch. 12]

Give it up, Garfield, KC, and Titan. Local 12 and 700 have proven over and over again that when they are backed into a corner with facts, they retreat to kindergarten tactics and will not address the issues.

My grandfather survived the Holocaust...5 of his six siblings did not. For that reason, I understand the extent of the Holocaust and will not compare our pres...no matter what my feelings are...to Hitler. But that is not what the quote is doing. Just b/c a Nazi said it that doesn't mean that Bush is Hitler. The points of the statement are that voices are supressed and dissenting opinions are labeled as threatening to the gov't. This is exactly what the GOP is doing. And for Bush and his pals to call disentors "liken to Fascists" is pretty blatent supression. Thrive on fear and supress the voices...that is what the quote mentions and that is what our current administration does. Quit with the "you are going to hell b/c you labelled the prez a Nazi" and actually think about and read through what people have posted. Your retorts are immature at best and totally skirt the real issue while trying to divert attention and make false accusations of those that pointed out the quote. These reactions further solidify the fact that your own party is trying to quiet any dissent and change the topic whenever it doesn't fit them. Go ahead...throw your poop b/c that is about as intelligent of a response as you will muster. And yes...label me as calling you Nazis even though I never did. Immature? yes. Nazi? no. Ignorant? yes. Nazi? no. But your own party has labelled me a fascist. How good is that? Mussolini was not much better than Hitler.

 

[local 12 proud]

This substance...

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

Perhaps it would have been better if the original post didn't include the fact that Goering said it...because this seems remarkably similar to the political tactics that have been employed by W in recent years.

Catch-phrases like - "appeaser", "cut and run", "coward" (remember John Murtha?), etc. are central to W's strategy to beat down anyone who would dare stand up and oppose the war in Iraq.

Again, you're so quick to be offended because it hits a little too close to home. It's much easier to cry foul than refute the similarities to the tactics outlined in the quote. To read posts from you and 700IAM, you would think that the rest of us on this board are just trying to drive this administration to hell...But to paraphrase Truman - we're just telling the truth and you just think it's hell!

We were attacked, we were not blindly led into a war, the Intelligence was there be it right or wrong. You Liberal left wing nut jobs such as yourself, KC, and especially ch.12 have such hatred for a conservative administration you will spew anything to push your agenda. I have stated more than once on this board I was and still am a conservative democrat at heart but my party chose to abandon my core beliefs and lean far to the left with its ideaology, Im not the only one who has left your pathetic party many more are sure to follow.

You people may very get what you wish for, Im so disgusted with both parties and see no one on the horizon who has the leadership qualities neccessary to reunite this Nation, for the first time in my life I may vote Independent.

 

[Ch. 12]

We were attacked, we were not blindly led into a war, the Intelligence was there be it right or wrong. You Liberal left wing nut jobs such as yourself, KC, and especially ch.12 have such hatred for a conservative administration you will spew anything to push your agenda. I have stated more than once on this board I was and still am a conservative democrat at heart but my party chose to abandon my core beliefs and lean far to the left with its ideaology, Im not the only one who has left your pathetic party many more are sure to follow.

You people may very get what you wish for, Im so disgusted with both parties and see no one on the horizon who has the leadership qualities neccessary to reunite this Nation, for the first time in my life I may vote Independent.

We were attacked by Iraq? Huh? There is the fear tactic in trying to justify something that has nothing to do with 9/11 by using 9/11.

 

[Flying Titan]

We were attacked, we were not blindly led into a war, the Intelligence was there be it right or wrong. You Liberal left wing nut jobs such as yourself, KC, and especially ch.12 have such hatred for a conservative administration you will spew anything to push your agenda. I have stated more than once on this board I was and still am a conservative democrat at heart but my party chose to abandon my core beliefs and lean far to the left with its ideaology, Im not the only one who has left your pathetic party many more are sure to follow.

You people may very get what you wish for, Im so disgusted with both parties and see no one on the horizon who has the leadership qualities neccessary to reunite this Nation, for the first time in my life I may vote Independent.

FACT: We were NOT, I repeat NOT, attacked by Iraq on 9/11. Making a claim that the war in Iraq is in response to 9/11 is simply perpetuating a lie.

Again - you refuse to address the substance of the quote and its similarities to the political tactics used by W. Perhaps, you have no substantive response because you smiply can't come up with a valid defense for it.

 

[Garfield1966]

We were attacked, we were not blindly led into a war, the Intelligence was there be it right or wrong. You Liberal left wing nut jobs such as yourself, KC, and especially ch.12 have such hatred for a conservative administration you will spew anything to push your agenda. I have stated more than once on this board I was and still am a conservative democrat at heart but my party chose to abandon my core beliefs and lean far to the left with its ideaology, Im not the only one who has left your pathetic party many more are sure to follow.

You people may very get what you wish for, Im so disgusted with both parties and see no one on the horizon who has the leadership qualities neccessary to reunite this Nation, for the first time in my life I may vote Independent.

Do you ever even review what you write before you post it?

Let’s review. You state that "we were attacked". That is correct. 19 men of Arab decent hijacked 4 air craft. As was later found they were members of Al Queda. They were not from Iraq nor were they agents of Iraq.

You then state that we were ‘not blindly led to war’. This would lead the casual reader to assume that the previously mentioned attack was the cause of going to war. We know this is not the case because the first reason that W said we invaded Iraq was because Sadam was in the possession of WMD’s. So, even according to W the invasion and subsequent on going occupation of Iraq had nothing to do with the attack on 9/11. After he realized there were no WMD there, the reason was to help the Iraqis I believe. Now it is to spread democracy. He has flip flopped so many times on why we are ion Iraq I doubt he even knows any more.

Why did you leave me out? I can’t stand W and his partners in crime. They continue to put conservative activist judges on the federal bench. The continue to try and change the constitution to suit their fundaMENTAL christian beliefs. They continue to fight a war with no end. they continue to spend money this country does not have. They have turned dissent into treason. They have divided this nation. They have let the fundaMENTAL christians in the front door and gave them a huge say in what goes on in this country. There is so much to despise them for.

 

[PITbull]

We were attacked, we were not blindly led into a war, the Intelligence was there be it right or wrong. You Liberal left wing nut jobs such as yourself, KC, and especially ch.12 have such hatred for a conservative administration you will spew anything to push your agenda. I have stated more than once on this board I was and still am a conservative democrat at heart but my party chose to abandon my core beliefs and lean far to the left with its ideaology, Im not the only one who has left your pathetic party many more are sure to follow.

You people may very get what you wish for, Im so disgusted with both parties and see no one on the horizon who has the leadership qualities neccessary to reunite this Nation, for the first time in my life I may vote Independent.

WE WERE NOT ATTACKED BY THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT OR ITS PEOPLE...EVEN BUSH AND HIS ADMINISTRATION ADMIT TO THAT. The majority of the 9/11 terrorists were from Egypt, and Saudi Aribia.

Don't you read?

I can’t stand W and his partners in crime. They continue to put conservative activist judges on the federal bench. The continue to try and change the constitution to suit their fundaMENTAL christian beliefs. They continue to fight a war with no end. they continue to spend money this country does not have. They have turned dissent into treason. They have divided this nation. They have let the fundaMENTAL christians in the front door and gave them a huge say in what goes on in this country. There is so much to despise them for.

Once again, you are 100% "spot on".

 

[KCFlyer]

We were attacked, we were not blindly led into a war, the Intelligence was there be it right or wrong. You Liberal left wing nut jobs such as yourself, KC, and especially ch.12 have such hatred for a conservative administration you will spew anything to push your agenda. I have stated more than once on this board I was and still am a conservative democrat at heart but my party chose to abandon my core beliefs and lean far to the left with its ideaology, Im not the only one who has left your pathetic party many more are sure to follow.

You people may very get what you wish for, Im so disgusted with both parties and see no one on the horizon who has the leadership qualities neccessary to reunite this Nation, for the first time in my life I may vote Independent.

Indeed we WERE attacked...and indeed I was behind our president 110% when we went after those that attacked us. But then....we focused on Iraq - who DIDN'T attack us. But we were told Saddam had WMD's and we were led to believe that he would use them to attack the US...might as well say we were under attack.

When someone disagrees...lets say France...we call them pansies (and worse) and rename French Fries to Freedom Fries. When an American citizen exercises his or her right (that my forefathers fought and died for) to protests the war, they are "enemy sympathizers". If we don't support the war, then we somehow don't support the troops.

Then there's Cheney saying that a vote for Kerry is a vote for another terrorist attack. That ALL pretty much sums up what Goering was talking about. Tell us we're under attack - attack the pacificsts as "un American", and imply that the democrats will "make the country less safe".

 

[PITbull]

Indeed we WERE attacked...and indeed I was behind our president 110% when we went after those that attacked us. But then....we focused on Iraq - who DIDN'T attack us. But we were told Saddam had WMD's and we were led to believe that he would use them to attack the US...might as well say we were under attack.

If you read much of the literature and books on the invasion post 9/11 on why we went to IRAQ, you will find that a group of 12 who were brought together by Christopher DeMuth (President of the American Enterprise Insitute (conservative Washington think tank, hired by Paul Wolfowitz. Some of the "12" were Bernard Lewis, a scholar of Islam, Fareed Zakaria, Editor of Newsweek International, Fouad Ajami, Director of Middle East Studies Progarm at SAIS, James Q. Wilson, professor specialist in human morality and crime, Reuel Marc Gerecht, a former CIA middle East expert, Steve Herbits, Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy Sec. of Defense. They were called the Bletchley II (think tank to make a strategic policy for Cheney,Bush, Rumsfield, Rice, Powell, Tenet),the top adminstration officials, a highly secret document (not published) called "Delta of Terrorism". Demuth was interviewed only to give a brief summary of its content,a highly classified document, and would not present it in full for the purpose of this publication "State of Denial". They met on November 29,2001 in a secure conference center in Virginia.

Over all, the report concluded the US was likely in for a two-generation battle with radical Islam. The general analysis was that Egypt and Saudi Arabia, where most of the hijakers came from, were the key, but the problmes there are intractable. Iran is more important, where they wre confident and successful in setting up a radical
government; Iran was difficult to envision delaing with.

But Saddam Hessein was different, weaker, more vulnerable. Baathism is an Arab form of fascism transplanted to Iraq. They concluded that a confrontation with Saddam was inevitable. He was a gathering threat, menacing, active and unavoidable threat. They agreed Sadddam would have to leave the scene before the problem would be addressed. "That was the only way to transform the region". Summarizing the Bletchley II conclusions...Herbits said, "we're facing a two-gernation war. And start with Iraq". (Woodward, State of Denial, page 85).

Rumsfield does not deny this meeting took place when asked in an interview...he just states he does not remember what all was discussed in that meeting.

So, the administration two month after 9/11 had to make a plan to convince congress that they needed to attack Iraq, and WMD was how they were able to convince a vulnerable American public who wre freshly angered and united post 9/11, and rally congress on this mission.

It was a lie.

They needed a U.S. presence in the middle east, and Iraqi military, its people, Suddam, were the likley weaklings in the region to invade, overthrow and occupy. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield thought it would be a cake walk...they didn't forsee terrorism esclating and recruiting even more Jihadis, and a civil war with a newly elected US puppet government in Iraq that just can't handle the post war. Bush and the Administration and the Defense Dept. are too arrogant to admit they "screwed up" and need to get out.

The radical Islamic jihadi war is much more widespread and bigger than just U.S. military troops occupying one ME state.

Assassinating Osama will not end a war on terrorism. The war is on "radical Islamic fundamentalists" who believe in eliminating Israel, the west through martyrdom.
Our soldiers are in harms way, and in full blown chaos, and we need to get out of there, and let them destroy each other. The iraqi people want us out...our presence is bringing a wrath on the people of Iraq. WE need to put all our resources in protecting and guarding our borders with all our might! rebuild our resouces and military and get ready for a real world war III with a united front, world of nations on board.