Vote Republican or Die!

[delldude]

Hey...if 700 is right...I think I found an easy out for you voting the next election:

 

[sentrido]

Then you and KC better get fitted with some extra thick asbestos suits

Whomever is the judge of our souls, it ain't you.

 

[sentrido]

Here ya go I think this applies to YOU.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
~ John Stuart Mill

How so? I am not anti war, and neither is my party. Your efforts to paint me in that light are pathetic and lame. Its funny being painted a coward and unpatriotic by someone sitting on thier couch surfing the web just like me.

I think the last person actually serving in Iraq dissapeared from the forum soon after it became clear no WMDs would be found. If there are any of you out there I would really like to hear your opinions. I would respect your condemnations of my opinions much more than those like me who are watching from our couches.

 

[Seatacus]

Then you and KC better get fitted with some extra thick asbestos suits

Hey 700IAM, you appear to be a self-righteous phony. I can't believe a real believer would talk to people the way you do. Except when Jesus cleared the Temple I never read of him talking angry and brow-beating people with his message. Take a good look in the mirror and wonder how you appear to others. Ask yourself if what you are saying is really helping others. If you think you are, perhaps you are delusional and practicing self-agrandisement. As a believer I know you are to aspire to be Christ-like. The more I hear from you the further from Christ you appear.

 

[KCFlyer]

Then you and KC better get fitted with some extra thick asbestos suits

You might want to order up one yourself....I think you can't see your self righteousness....but the big guy can.

I expect no less from you KC, to quote a former Nazi and compare our leadership to such is quite telling indeed. 😉

Let's parse it then local...tell me what you disagree with

"Of course the people don't want war.

Do you want war? HOw about your neighbor.

But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy,

Is he wrong here...can any Tom Dick or Harry declare war?

and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,

Now...where have we heard that before??? But did Iraq attack us...nope...but we've been TOLD time and time again that somehow they did

and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism,

Oh....if I had a nickle every time someone on the right told me I wasn't patriotic because I didn't support the war....or that I didn't support the troops because I don't support the war...I'd be a wealthy man. You've even questioned the patriotism of pacifists in this very thread...seems more like you are proving Goering right on this one

and exposing the country to greater danger."

Remember Cheney's comments about a vote for Kerry was a vote for another attack on America? Bet you've used that one too. You know...Goering was a bad guy...but sometimes even the bad guys speak the truth.

 

[delldude]

How so? I am not anti war, and neither is my party. Your efforts to paint me in that light are pathetic and lame. Its funny being painted a coward and unpatriotic by someone sitting on thier couch surfing the web just like me.

dudes gotta laptop

I think the last person actually serving in Iraq dissapeared from the forum soon after it became clear no WMDs would be found. If there are any of you out there I would really like to hear your opinions. I would respect your condemnations of my opinions much more than those like me who are watching from our couches.

it became clear no WMDs would be found only to you.... one these days soon all you friggin' libs are gonna drop a WMD load in your drawers....

what do you expect to find? A bunch of mirv's?

Couple buried Mig's were dug up...hmmm a delivery platform for WMD's..oops don't count....probably wouldn't have been able to fly anyhow..

Bunch arty shells containing sarin-oops don't count,they're old....

The Sound of Silence: Iraq's WMDs Found

May 28, 2004



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by Joe Mariani
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After spending more than a year attacking the Bush administration daily for their supposed failure to produce the WMDs that everyone -- including the United Nations, as well as most leading Democrats -- believed Saddam had hidden, the Left has suddenly gone strangely silent on the subject. The "mainstream" media has been tiptoeing around the discovery of a 155-mm mortar shell containing Sarin gas in Iraq, the contents of which have been confirmed. The shell was used as part of an improvised explosive device (IED) on a road near the Baghdad International Airport, and exploded as it was being disarmed.

The shell contained three liters of Sarin -- nearly a gallon. It was a type of shell designed to mix chemical components during flight, which was why the explosion didn't kill anyone (though two soldiers were treated for exposure). Three liters of Sarin is enough, if the components are mixed properly, to realistically kill hundreds, and potentially thousands. A concentration of 100 milligrams of Sarin per cubic meter of air is enough to constitute a lethal dose for half the people breathing it within one minute.

This type of chemical warfare shell had never been declared by Iraq -- it was not even known that Iraq had ever made them. The 1999 UNSCOM report on Iraq reported that thirty binary/Sarin shells were known to exist, and stated that all had been accounted for. According to UNSCOM, "Iraq developed a crude type of binary munition, whereby the final mixing of the two precursors to the agent was done inside the munition just before delivery." Someone actually had to physically pour the components of the Sarin (or other type of G-series nerve agent) into the shells before they could be fired. At least, that's how the ones we knew about worked.

So, a previously-unknown type of artillery shell is found in Iraq, containing an actual, verifiable chemical weapon. This is front page news, right? Should we expect apologies from formerly doubting Liberals? Newspapers filled with retractions from prominent Democrats? Conciliatory visits to President Bush from Jaques Chirac and Gerhardt Schroeder? Not so fast. Remember: it's an election year. Liberals, Democrats, terrorists and appeasers all want President Bush to lose the election so everyone can get back to business as usual. Terrorists want to get back to their implacable war against Western civilisation, and the others want to get back to trying to placate them. The media, as long as we let them get away with it, will only run stories that attack President Bush and undermine support for him. In fact, Liberals already have their spin on this Sarin find ready to go. The vast majority of them -- when you can get them to admit that the Sarin and the shell are real -- argue that it doesn't matter for one of four "reasons."

A. The shell is old, from before the 1991 Gulf War, so it's not what we were looking for.

Since the cease-fire that suspended the Gulf War depended on Saddam's handing over to the UN "[a]ll chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities", this shell is precisely what we were looking for, especially if it predates 1991. This shell and others like it is why the UN passed 17 resolutions demanding that Saddam disarm. No matter how old it was, it was still lethal. There is no statute of limitations on weapons of mass destruction.

B. There is only one shell, not a stockpile, so it doesn't mean anything.

This one shell contained enough WMD material to potentially kill as many people as died on 9/11, all by itself. Is it logical to assume that this is the only one in existence -- or just wishful thinking? The fact is that we still don't know how much Sarin Iraq actually produced. "At first, Iraq told UNSCOM that it had produced an estimated 250 tons of tabun and 812 tons of sarin. In 1995, Iraq changed its estimates and reported it had produced only 210 tons of tabun and 790 tons of sarin." (Yes, that's tons.) At the very least, it tells us that we haven't nearly finished looking for the WMDs that Saddam was supposed to surrender, and didn't. Besides... a shell containing mustard gas was also found. Well, maybe there were only two WMD shells in all of Iraq.

C. Just because Saddam had WMDs after all, it doesn't mean Bush didn't lie about them.

As ridiculous as it sounds, this appears to be the instinctive, defensive reaction of many Liberals to this news. They so badly need to believe that President Bush lied in order to legitimise their hatred of him that they're capable of this sort of twisted reasoning. The rationale seems to be that WMDs don't count if they aren't exactly where the CIA told us they were, as if they couldn't be moved.

D. The terrorists didn't even know it was a chemical shell.

Well, they do now. And they know where they found it, too.

We need to redouble our efforts to stop the terrorists and find Saddam's WMDs, before they're used to derail the new Iraqi government's formation. The media's refusal to give this news the coverage it deserves can only be due to a calculated attempt to reduce American support for our efforts in Iraq, including that of tracking down Saddam's banned weapons. The Left's deliberate silence on this subject for the purpose of influencing our election only helps our enemies.

WMD FOUND IN IRAQ

The media is fond of reminding us that no Weapons of Mass Destruction were ever found in Iraq. This has been the clarion call of the Democrats for a couple of years now. However, did you know that WMD were found in Iraq? Not just a couple...but lots of them. A mother who lost her son in Iraq was interviewed on Fox News had this to say: "I have seen photos of entire fighter jets buried in the sand. I have seen pictures of entire caches of weapons that just my son's unit would uncover." I wonder why we never hear much about that one? Here's also a nice little list of what was found:

-500 tons...that's right...TONS...make that 1million pounds of yellow cake uranium. It was found at Saddam's nuclear weapons facility (yup...he had one of those too.)

-1.8 tons of partially enriched uranium found at the same place. You know, the stuff you need to make nukes.

-Hidden centrifuge parts and blueprints.

-Two dozen artillery shells loaded with Sarin and mustard gas.

Sounds like WMD to me! You may want to print this off and impress your friends with your knowledge.

Contrary to ongoing reports by mainstream media outlets, WMDs have been found in Iraq, so reports New York Times best-selling author Richard Miniter in his new book, Disinformation.

Consider these shocking facts:

• Found: 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium

• Found: 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons

• Found: Roadside bomb loaded with sarin gas

• Found: 1,000 radioactive materials--ideal for radioactive dirty bombs

• Found: 17 chemical warheads--some containing cyclosarin, a nerve agent five times more powerful than sarin

This is only a partial list of the deadly weapons Miniter reveals in his new book, Disinformation. Miniter systematically dissects the "No-WMD Myth" (how it started, and why it continues), as well as 21 other War-on-Terror myths perpetuated by the media.

Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, August 14, 2005; Page A18

BAGHDAD, Aug. 13 -- U.S. troops raiding a warehouse in the northern city of Mosul uncovered a suspected chemical weapons factory containing 1,500 gallons of chemicals believed destined for attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces and civilians, military officials said Saturday.

Monday's early morning raid found 11 precursor agents, "some of them quite dangerous by themselves," a military spokesman, Lt. Col. Steven A. Boylan, said in Baghdad.

Materials found in a warehouse in Mosul could yield an agent capable of "lingering hazards" for those exposed to it, according to a U.S. military spokesman. He said the lab was relatively new, dating from some time after the invasion of Iraq in 2003. (Photos By Department Of Defense)

Combined, the chemicals would yield an agent capable of "lingering hazards" for those exposed to it, Boylan said. The likely targets would have been "coalition and Iraqi security forces, and Iraqi civilians," partly because the chemicals would be difficult to keep from spreading over a wide area, he said.

Boylan said the suspected lab was new, dating from some time after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Bush administration cited evidence that Saddam Hussein's government was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for the invasion. No such weapons or factories were found.

Military officials did not immediately identify either the precursors or the agent they could have produced. "We don't want to speculate on any possibilities until our analysis is complete," Col. Henry Franke, a nuclear, biological and chemical defense officer, was quoted as saying in a military statement.

Investigators still were trying to determine who had assembled the alleged lab and whether the expertise came from foreign insurgents or former members of Hussein's security apparatus, the military said.

"They're looking into it," Boylan said. "They've got to go through it -- there's a lot of stuff there." He added that there was no indication that U.S. forces would be ordered to carry chemical warfare gear, such as gas masks and chemical suits, as they did during the invasion and the months immediately afterward.

U.S. military photos of the alleged lab showed a bare concrete-walled room scattered with stacks of plastic containers, coiled tubing, hoses and a stand holding a large metal device that looked like a distillery. Black rubber boots lay among the gear.

The suspected chemical weapons lab was the biggest found so far in Iraq, Boylan said. A lab discovered last year in the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah contained a how-to book on chemical weapons and an unspecified amount of chemicals.

Chemical weapons are divided into the categories of "persistent" agents, which wreak damage for hours, such as blistering agents or the oily VX nerve agent, and "nonpersistent" ones, which dissipate quickly, such as chlorine gas or sarin nerve gas.

Iraqi forces under Hussein used chemical agents both on enemy forces in the 1980s war with Iran and on Iraqi Kurdish villagers in 1988. Traces of a variety of killing agents -- mustard gas and the nerve agents sarin, tabun and VX -- were detected by investigators after the 1988 attack.

No chemical weapons are known to have been used so far in Iraq's insurgency. Al Qaeda announced after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States that it was looking into acquiring biological, radiological and chemical weapons. The next year, CNN obtained and aired al Qaeda videotapes showing the killings of three dogs with what were believed to be nerve agents.

Oh crap....Bob Woodward said there aren't any so thats it....

 

[KCFlyer]

Oh crap....Bob Woodward said there aren't any so thats it....

Did you feel that Woodward couldn't be trusted when he wrote his previous two books...which were very laudatory towards Bush??

 

[delldude]

Did you feel that Woodward couldn't be trusted when he wrote his previous two books...which were very laudatory towards Bush??

His past books are not the issue....He says thats it as far as WMD's and it is over and done with??

Who's he anyhow.....definately not the final word on the issue is all i'm saying.

Some of the info I found is older but some is recent...one things for sure....awhile back the media and dems sure shut up about the issue.....duh.....

Reminds one of what your definition of sex is....

 

[KCFlyer]

His past books are not the issue....He says thats it as far as WMD's and it is over and done with??

Who's he anyhow.....definately not the final word on the issue is all i'm saying.

Some of the info I found is older but some is recent...one things for sure....awhile back the media and dems sure shut up about the issue.....duh.....

Reminds one of what your definition of sex is....

Just find it odd that nobody questioned Woodward's credibility when he wrote two downright nauseatingly glowing books about Bush.

 

[700IAM]

Hey 700IAM, you appear to be a self-righteous phony. I can't believe a real believer would talk to people the way you do. Except when Jesus cleared the Temple I never read of him talking angry and brow-beating people with his message. Take a good look in the mirror and wonder how you appear to others. Ask yourself if what you are saying is really helping others. If you think you are, perhaps you are delusional and practicing self-agrandisement. As a believer I know you are to aspire to be Christ-like. The more I hear from you the further from Christ you appear.

The difference between Christ and myself is as far as east is from west. Without his grace and Holy Spirit I would be in your company. I am very much human with all the flaws. For you to blow away God’s word his power and presence because I don’t fit your idea of an individual who accepts the Lord only shows an individual trying to justify his own unbelief, which be your eternal downfall. When you are judged that’s the time to point fingers and scream at the Lord. Right now you might as well enjoy your short stay, enjoy the little time and any real pleasures and freedom you have before your total destructions falls upon you. Satan’s snare has you locked tight and has blinded you. Not accepting this fact wont change that fact or your eternal destination. I’ll pray for your soul, it’s all I can do.

 

[delldude]

Just find it odd that nobody questioned Woodward's credibility when he wrote two downright nauseatingly glowing books about Bush.

Well then where the hell were you?

Just kidding...and I did not read those books.....

Credibilty....he isn't the last word on the issue of WMD's as far as I know.

This is an interesting dilemma...You know i'm pretty sure theres SAT images of WMD's being shipped into the Bekka Valley and buried...and probably into Syria also...but now we get into sticky political and intel dilemmas.....there are SAT images of I believe....trailers of cash of saddams heading for the Syrian border that were intercepted...and no one can convince me that US Sat's weren't tasked over Iraq for a long time before any military action was even advertised.So i'd bet my bippy theres SAT evidence available but could compromise assets and/or Diplomatic associations at best.Statesmanship/Diplomacy is a very slippery slope to negotiate.... 😉

So then,who has the final answer......and the truth?

 

[KCFlyer]

Well then where the hell were you?

Just kidding...and I did not read those books.....

Credibilty....he isn't the last word on the issue of WMD's as far as I know.

This is an interesting dilemma...You know i'm pretty sure theres SAT images of WMD's being shipped into the Bekka Valley and buried...and probably into Syria also...but now we get into sticky political and intel dilemmas.....there are SAT images of I believe....trailers of cash of saddams heading for the Syrian border that were intercepted...and no one can convince me that US Sat's weren't tasked over Iraq for a long time before any military action was even advertised.So i'd bet my bippy theres SAT evidence available but could compromise assets and/or Diplomatic associations at best.Statesmanship/Diplomacy is a very slippery slope to negotiate.... 😉

So then,who has the final answer......and the truth?

Everybody knows he had them. Heck...WE were the ones who gave them to him in the first place. Remember? We didn't seem to mind at the time that he used them on his on people instead of the Iranians. And because Rummy was the one who signed them over to him, they used that at the reason to invade Iraq. Trouble is...why was it bad that he had them now, but he was a good enough bad guy that we'd give them to him under another Republican administration? I guess it goes to what the Republicans giveth, the Republicans taketh away.

 

[Seatacus]

The difference between Christ and myself is as far as east is from west. Without his grace and Holy Spirit I would be in your company. I am very much human with all the flaws. For you to blow away God’s word his power and presence because I don’t fit your idea of an individual who accepts the Lord only shows an individual trying to justify his own unbelief, which be your eternal downfall. When you are judged that’s the time to point fingers and scream at the Lord. Right now you might as well enjoy your short stay, enjoy the little time and any real pleasures and freedom you have before your total destructions falls upon you. Satan’s snare has you locked tight and has blinded you. Not accepting this fact wont change that fact or your eternal destination. I’ll pray for your soul, it’s all I can do.

You don't even know me and you've condemned me. Is there no shame? Who makes you the arbitor of who's right or wrong? You're a real piece of work. Are you sure you're playing for the right team. I am starting to wonder. You appear to do more harm for the Lord than good.

 

[Seatacus]

The difference between Christ and myself is as far as east is from west.

This is becoming more clear the more you talk.......

 

[delldude]

Everybody knows he had them. Heck...WE were the ones who gave them to him in the first place. Remember? We didn't seem to mind at the time that he used them on his on people instead of the Iranians. And because Rummy was the one who signed them over to him, they used that at the reason to invade Iraq. Trouble is...why was it bad that he had them now, but he was a good enough bad guy that we'd give them to him under another Republican administration? I guess it goes to what the Republicans giveth, the Republicans taketh away.

Goes to the enemy of my enemy is my friend concept(IRAN)

you know thats the way US Gov't do it.....so now who do you blame but whoever?