Wasn't the TWU (M & R) and AA supposed to have met earlier this week?

[aamechntx]

They were supposed to meet on the 13th and 14th, right? Anyone have any info concerning this?

 

[Hopeful]

Yes they did. Here is the update.





http://negotiaate.twu.org
TWU M&R Contract Negotiations Communication Update
The Mechanic and Related Negotiating Committee represents Aviation Maintenance Technicians,
Overhaul Support Mechanics, Aircraft Cleaners, Parts Washers in Title I, Plant Maintenance
Mechanics, Plant Maintenance Man, Utility Man, Building Cleaners, Cabin Cleaners in Title II
1-888-4TWUUpdate 1-888-489-8873
Your Mechanic and Related Negotiating Committee reconvened in Dallas,
Texas the week of January 13th & 14th 2009. Below is the specific
Negotiating Committee progress report.
Below is detailed information on the Articles that were tentatively agreed
to between the Union and the Company during this session:
 Article 2 (Definitions)
This Article was TA'd
Definitions added were (Shift), (Basic Classification), (Complex), (Higher
Capacity Position), Day(s), (Maintenance Base)
 Article 15 (Reduction in Force)
This Article was TA'd with the exception of the license/skill premium pay, as
annotated in the current agreement (Article 15 paragraph 4©). The Union's
position is that the AMT keep their License or Skill premium in the event an
AMT elects to displace an OSM. The Article was re-written for clarification.
 Article 23 (Attendance at Hearings, Investigations or Training Classes)
The Article was TA'd. The only change to this Article was to add 'day off'
training compensation at rates provided in Article 6(B) (Overtime).
 Article 39 (Physical Examination)
This article was TA'd. There was a name change in this Article to FITNESS
FOR DUTY. This article was a complete re-write to mirror the current
practice used today. Your Negotiating Committee worked closely with the
TWU Benefits Committee, who provided insight on our current practice.
Temporary Restriction and Permanent Restriction were defined. The expense
of the third medical examiner will be borne by the company, unless the
employee is a no-show for a scheduled appointment without justifiable
reason. In the event an employee prevails, back pay will be retroactive to the
date the employee filed his Article 39 appeal, as well as adopting new
language regarding the Accommodations Review Board (ARB).
Other Articles discussed between the parties during this session:
 Article 34 (Sick Leave/Unused Sick Leave)
Added attachment titled FMLA Recognition. It was removed from Article 39
and placed in Article 34.
 Article 46 (One Station Agreements)
After numerous proposals to provide a clear understanding and streamline
Article 46 for our members, the Company did not entertain any of the Union's
proposals on this Article. Therefore, the Union took the stand to remain with
current language and not entertain any Company changes on this Article.
This Article remains open.
The Mechanic and Related Negotiating Committee have a tentative date to
meet with the Company on February 16th and 17th.
We thank all of our Members for your continued support.
Your M&R Negotiation Communication/Education Committee will continue
station visits, providing information and updates on negotiations. We will
be visiting the following stations: AFW, DFW, ORD, BOS, DCA, JFK/LGA and
MIA. Contact your Local for times and location.
Remember – Tentative Agreements reached during the course of negotiations on one or more
Articles are not final and binding until agreements are reached on all Articles - Nothing is final until
everything is final
*This article was tentatively agreed to with the exception of license pay annotated in
paragraph C sub 5
Article (Mechanic and Related)
Tentative
Agreemen
t Reached
Date
Presented Still in work (X)
1 Recognition & Scope Mar 6th X
2 Definitions Jan 14th 09 Nov 13th TA
3 Hours of Work Jan 30th X
4 Compensation Mar 6th X
5 Shift Diff & Test Hop Mar 6th X
6 Overtime Mar 6th X
7 Holidays Mar 6th X
8 Vacations Jan 15th X
9 Probationary Period Nov 13th Nov 12th TA
10 Seniority Dec 12th Nov 16th TA
11 Classification/Qualifications Mar 6th X
12 Promotions & Jobs to be posted Jan 15th X
13 Seniority Lists Apr 24th Dec 11th TA
14 Loss of Seniority Nov 16th Nov 13th TA
15 Reduction in Force Jan 14th 09 Nov 12th TA *see note below
16 Recall Jun 19th Dec 5th TA
17 Leaves of Absence Jun 19th Dec 4th TA
18 Military Leave Jan 21st Jan 15th TA
19 Termination of Employment Feb 2nd Jan 30th TA
20 Bulletin Boards Nov 13th Nov 13th TA
21 Rotation of Shifts Feb 27th Dec 4th TA
22 Regular and Relief Assignments Jan 15th Jan 15th TA
23 Training Investigations Jan 14th 09 Dec 11th TA
24 Absence From Work Dec 4th Nov 16th TA
25 Recall and Call in Feb 20th X
26 Field Work Jun 19th Dec 5th TA
27 General Apr 10th Dec 13th TA
28 No Discrimination, and Recognition of
Rights of Compliance Dec 11th Nov 13th TA
29 Representation Feb 1st Jan 30th TA
30 Dismissal Feb 20th Jan 30th TA
31 Grievance Procedure Feb 20th Jan 30th TA
32 Arbitration Feb 20th Jan 30th TA
33 No Strike No - Lock Out Dec 11th Dec 5th TA
34 Sick Leave / Unused Sick Leave Mar 3rd X
35 Temporary Employees Dec 12th Dec 11th TA
36 Meal Periods Jan 30th X
37 Severance Feb 22nd Feb 20th TA
38 Union Security Nov 13th Nov 12th TA
39 Physical Examinations Jan 14th 09 Nov 16th X
40 Pension Benefits Mar 6th X
41 Health Benefits Mar 6th X
42 Job Security Feb 20th X
43 Part Time Employees Apr 11th Feb 20th TA
44 Special Moving Allowance Dec 14th Dec 13th TA
45 Previous Agreements Feb 11th Jan 30th TA
46 One-Station Rule Jan 21st X
47 Duration Mar 6th X
M&R Negotiating Committee Member Weekly Attendance Jan 13-14th, 2009
LOCAL NAME LOCAL NAME LOCAL NAME
501 David Virella 514 Dale Lantz 562 Bob Owens
501 Vinnie Argentina 514 Howard McKinney 562 Steve Gukelberger
502 Donny Tyndall 514 Adam Ferrara 563 Steve Gilboy
505 Mike Mayes 521 Todd Gibbs 564 JR Ruiz
505 Robert Todd 529 Charlie Meyer 564 Bill Houseman
507 Tim Hughes 529 Steve Prehn 565 Bob Zimmerman
510 Pete Hogan 530 Chris Baker 565 Mike Bush
510 Brian McMahon 530 Michael Taylor 567 Gary Moffitt
512 Mike Rubel 530 Gordon Clark 567 Robert Strebeck
512 Rick Rodriguez 530 Bill Ballard 567 Johnny Griffith
513 Darrin Pierce 541 Jim Fudge 567 Larry Pike
513 Frank Pecoraro 541 Dale Holt 568 Tom Lee
514 Steve Luis 561 Todd Woodward 569 Glenn Jeanes *
514 Dan Mitchell 561 Richard Rostock 590 Howard Blaydes
514 Sam Cirri * 561 Tony Bernal
Θ Not Present *Excused

 

[The Goose]

They were supposed to meet on the 13th and 14th, right? Anyone have any info concerning this?

Nothing significant happened evidently - Little's not making any pro-company speeches.

 

[Hopeful]

That's because the company hasn't yet discussed with him his 2009 bonus package.

 

[The Goose]

Ahh - gotcha.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

The company is clearly stalling. When they wanted a contract in place in 2003 it was done in less than a month and really settled in less than 3 days of round the clock negotiating. This was with the blessing of the TWU. The question is: now we want an agreement and no one is in a rush!

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- Chuck, there are two things the TWU could have done in 2003 to prevent just this: They should have included a "snap back clause" in the original contract! (Although, I get the feeling, at that time, they had no idea what that was!)----- Second: Now that the damage is done, and the Company is dragging their feet, the Union needs to insist on pay "retroactive" back to the date the contract was legally amendable! Failing to do so, will only set a precedent for future contracts!------- Do they have the wavoes to do that?------- I doubt it!

 

[TRAMPS LIKE US]

The company is clearly stalling. When they wanted a contract in place in 2003 it was done in less than a month and really settled in less than 3 days of round the clock negotiating. This was with the blessing of the TWU. The question is: now we want an agreement and no one is in a rush!

Chuck;

Congrats on your election to VP of Local 562. I wish you well. Can you please tell us what transpired during the last round of negotiations on Jan 13th and 14th? Pres. Owens has yet to fill us in.

 

[eolesen]

<_< ----- Chuck, there are two things the TWU could have done in 2003 to prevent just this: They should have included a "snap back clause" in the original contract! (Although, I get the feeling, at that time, they had no idea what that was!)----- Second: Now that the damage is done, and the Company is dragging their feet, the Union needs to insist on pay "retroactive" back to the date the contract was legally amendable! Failing to do so, will only set a precedent for future contracts!------- Do they have the wavoes to do that?------- I doubt it!

Sounds great, but a key requirement of the 2003 RPA's was no snap-backs.

It wasn't just the company demanding that. Many employees seem to overlook that the RPA process didn't just involve employees. Vendors and creditors also took a haircut.

Most of the banks and many of the creditors asked to restructure debt, relax loan covenants, etc. had already been burned three months earlier by UAL's bankruptcy.

Without "permanent structural changes" in the labor agreements, they weren't about to sign up to be fleeced a few years later in bankruptcy court.

 

[MCI transplant]

Sounds great, but a key requirement of the 2003 RPA's was no snap-backs.

It wasn't just the company demanding that. Many employees seem to overlook that the RPA process didn't just involve employees. Vendors and creditors also took a haircut.

Most of the banks and many of the creditors asked to restructure debt, relax loan covenants, etc. had already been burned three months earlier by UAL's bankruptcy.

Without "permanent structural changes" in the labor agreements, they weren't about to sign up to be fleeced a few years later in bankruptcy court.

<_< ------- If I rember correctly, the issue of a "snap back " was never even brought up by the Unions! And for sure, was never brought before the membership!------- Now tell me this! Did these "Vender's and creditors" that "also took a haircut", have some sort of snap back in their agreements? Was there an agreement to repay them in "better times"? Have such payments been made? Or was it a write off, like we took?-------- As for the "Retro-pay", that advise still holds!!!

 

[FWAAA]

<_< ------- If I rember correctly, the issue of a "snap back " was never even brought up by the Unions! And for sure, was never brought before the membership!

Snapbacks weren't ever brought up because one of the first things AA told the three unions was "there won't be any snapbacks."

Now tell me this! Did these "Vender's and creditors" that "also took a haircut", have some sort of snap back in their agreements? Was there an agreement to repay them in "better times"? Have such payments been made? Or was it a write off, like we took?-------- As for the "Retro-pay", that advise still holds!!!

Nope. The vendors and creditors took losses and AA never repaid them. They received about three million options (same as yours - $5 strike price) to compensate them. The vendors and creditors wrote off the losses. And, of course, they didn't have to deal with the uncertainty of Ch 11.

Retro pay? Certainly. Has any union ever agreed to give up retro pay when an airline contract was amended?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

<_< ----- Chuck, there are two things the TWU could have done in 2003 to prevent just this: They should have included a "snap back clause" in the original contract! (Although, I get the feeling, at that time, they had no idea what that was!)----- Second: Now that the damage is done, and the Company is dragging their feet, the Union needs to insist on pay "retroactive" back to the date the contract was legally amendable! Failing to do so, will only set a precedent for future contracts!------- Do they have the wavoes to do that?------- I doubt it!

In my opinion, that no retro pay is a deal breaker....period! we have to get pay increase in wages and without a penalty negotiations will go on forever.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< Chuck,------ I hope you're not the only one who's figured that out!!!

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Retro pay? Certainly. Has any union ever agreed to give up retro pay when an airline contract was amended?

I'll bet a thousand bucks the TWU has done or will do just that.

 

[Bagbelt]

I asked about snap back in 03 and was told the co. could never get financing with that language included. As far as retro, an old negotiating tactic is to offer a 0%-2%-3% etc. over the life of the contract. No raise no retro. Remember, this is the outfit that negotiated $6 hr. junior clerks in the middle of the biggest economic boom in the postwar period. It only passed because of the 5 and 5 retirement offer.