Well..just Gonna Thro It Out

[jsn25911]

HA! YOU might be the APFA, MIAAMI, but we are not. All we wanted from the beginning was fairness and inclusion. Instead, we were met with hatred, exclusion and vitriol from the top on down through the ranks. Now, as APFA self destructs like an old "Mission Impossible" tape, we are sitting back and watching. And I, for one, coudn't think of a better group of people. APFA sowed the seeds of hate and discontent and now they are reaping their harvest.

TransWorldFirst

(not to be confused with Trans World ONE)

Miami - I have to agree with Transworld first. All we ever wanted was fairness and inclusion. I don't remember ever in the history of unions -- hearing about the unfairness and exclusion that TWA has experienced. All that was ever offered to TWA was hate and exclusion.

Now it is as if the hate is eating the apfa alive. I have never seen such hate that AA flight attendants expressed even amongst themselves. On another board I had to ask if AA trained the flight attendants to treat each other so badly because it appears they are very skilled at it.


I give AA another few years then they will be TWA all over again. You become what you destroy. And the purpose of AA taking TWA was to destroy it so it could not be a challenge for AA. Wonder who will speak the savior's words when AA's time comes.........maybe it will be something like "TWo great airlines....One great future". Who knows maybe Southwest or United. And you can forget that scope clause cause they will take you to court if you don't agree to signing it over. But then you have set the precedent on how one should be treated....so the circle continues!

 

[L1011Ret]

Yes Fly, most certainly what is going on at APFA is NOT a TWA issue. The TWA issue is one among many and at this point in time it is on the back burner. APFA is a divided union, almost paralized by its own internal conflicts. Junior/Senior, crew meals, rest, the TWA issue, constitutional lawsuits, the possibly that some newly found votes that might substantialy alter the election, and other issues present difficulties. But it is beyond that I think. There appear to be huge issues of power and control despite having a constitution that outlines roles, there is entrenched warfare apparantly between people who just barely tolerated each other in the past, and the communication to the membership borders on the nearly non existant. The APFA hotline with some exceptions largly seems to parrot AA communications. My spouse, a dues paid up furloughed TWA F/A has never seen anything like resolutions passed or not passed at BOD meetings. The hotline very rarely says anything about what is going on at APFA. She has not the slightest idea what is going on at APFA. She may not care but that is another issue. If it were not for these BBs and others and the few who attend occasional meetings who post information, there would be no knowledge of what is going on. Some like JN are very biased in their reporting. As MiAAmi pointed out, 98% have no idea what is going on. That is a bad sign indicating the union is estranged from the membership. APFA has become an entity unto itself having no need to draw in the membership. When married or partnered couples get that way, the next step is divorce or separation. I would like to thank both the nAAtives and TWAers for their more recent posts. APFA may be a mess but there are genuine human beings hanging out on this BB.

 

[Flyboy4u]

AAStew, You correctly hit it on the head when you said that most on the line have no clue what's going on..Last time I flew, I was discussing the furlough situation with the crew..They had no idea what had happend to us following furlough on 07/02/03. They didn't realize we got no furlough pay, unlike all those previous to us did. They had no idea our unemployment benefit was only for 6 months, unlike those previous to us who had 12. The point I am trying to make, and have been trying to make, is that the line holding F/A's don't really care. They are selfish and out to get what they can for themselves. Now I can't say that for everyone still flying, but I would say the majority just doesn't care. There are all of these programs setup ie..WINGS etc...for charity, but nothing is setup to help those of us get back on our feet. Other unions including ALPA, have programs in place for this exact situation to help their memeber furloughed get back on their feet. I know that when the furloughs happened prior to the July one, I was devastated for those who lost their job. So much so, that I personally helped 2 furloughs get back on their feet. In fact one stayed with me over 4 months until she was able to find a new job. So where is the APFA when we needed them? They were too busy furthering their own agendas. In fact, I still have a copy of the bill from APFA wanting me to pay back dues from July- October. This is the kind of union the F/A's have representing them. They just want your money!! Yes, I am sure the APFA has helped several F/A's get their jobs back during the past, but they sure dropped the ball this past year. Maybe JW was too busy moving into his brand new home while I was being evicted from my own.

I never in a million years figured I would have been in the same situation as the F/A's I helped a year later. I actually believed my union who said that the furlough last July would not reach my seniority, but almost a year later I am still looking for work. Surely the APFA didn't lie to me? All I can say is this union will never see another cent from me again....Even when I return to the line, they can try to terminate me all they want, but as we all know that never happens.

 

[L1011Ret]

When my TWA spouse was furloughed she received nothing from APFA. By that I mean what kind of benefits you were entitled to, passes, etc. Zilch, nada. Not even a letter saying she did not have to pay dues. Certainly nothing about no furlough pay from APFA. I admit to bias against APFA, but the evidence of their lousy representation towards junior nAAtives and TWA F/As is overwhelmingly negative.

 

[woztwa]

Yes Fly, most certainly what is going on at APFA is NOT a TWA issue. The TWA issue is one among many and at this point in time it is on the back burner. APFA is a divided union, almost paralized by its own internal conflicts. Junior/Senior, crew meals, rest, the TWA issue, constitutional lawsuits, the possibly that some newly found votes that might substantialy alter the election, and other issues present difficulties. But it is beyond that I think. There appear to be huge issues of power and control despite having a constitution that outlines roles, there is entrenched warfare apparantly between people who just barely tolerated each other in the past, and the communication to the membership borders on the nearly non existant. The APFA hotline with some exceptions largly seems to parrot AA communications. My spouse, a dues paid up furloughed TWA F/A has never seen anything like resolutions passed or not passed at BOD meetings. The hotline very rarely says anything about what is going on at APFA. She has not the slightest idea what is going on at APFA. She may not care but that is another issue. If it were not for these BBs and others and the few who attend occasional meetings who post information, there would be no knowledge of what is going on. Some like JN are very biased in their reporting. As MiAAmi pointed out, 98% have no idea what is going on. That is a bad sign indicating the union is estranged from the membership. APFA has become an entity unto itself having no need to draw in the membership. When married or partnered couples get that way, the next step is divorce or separation. I would like to thank both the nAAtives and TWAers for their more recent posts. APFA may be a mess but there are genuine human beings hanging out on this BB.

Bill, that was eloguent!!! Bottom line is there are those of us(AA/TW)that want to take it back to where the members RULE. Suffice it to say, the AA F/A's feel like they are married to an abusive, philandering husband, with no where to go.
Am I right? Come on people, do you want to lose your Monday rotation to senioriy issues for a mere 2,000 f/a's---or lose your jobs....??? John Ward has poisoned this group so badly-that he has clouded the issues, to remain in control
He is out-of -control........

 

[L1011Ret]

I think APFA is too embarassed to hear the membership. As for JW being out of control, it appears that the big problem is that he is no longer in control and his efforts to regain control are getting out of control. I suspect he is a control freak who has no idea of how to build a consensus when people disagree with his views. He does not appear able to learn how to do what politicians call "horse trading" to build a consensus. My way or the highway! So he will alienate so many that he will be unable to usefully and functionally govern the union.

 

[jsn25911]

Bill - do you know what JW experience was before this position. I suspect he hasn't really been in a union position - however, I am not sure.

 

[L1011Ret]

Not sure, but I think he may have been DFW base chair.