With the creation of the J4J program and the creation of the APL list, the pilots of US Airways, Piedmont, and PSA essentially agreed to merge their seniority lists and create one pilot group. In the event of a merger what will happen to this agreement? Will the furloughed pilots be forgotten? Will the express pilots still be entitled to flow through to the combined carrier? If the APL list is abandoned will PSA then be able to scuttle the J4J program since the mailine pilots aren't living up to their end of the agreement?
What Happens To The Apl List?
- Thread starter Bluestreak
- Start date
Bluestreak:
With the pending investment agreement(s) and if a third party investor(s) creates a holding company that acquires and operates both US Airways and America West, all current CBA agreements must remain in place. Then before the companies merge Joint Negotiating committee's must be formed and they must negotiate new CBA's before workforces can be integrated.
ALPA has begun the work of protecting pilots and the first step is to portect MDA pilots, since there is an investment and asset transfer agreement with Republic that could be executed (By the way -- I have heard that the US Airways-Republic agreement could be executed and become effective on June 1).
On April 18 the MEC passed the following resolution:
The MEC convened its special meeting today in Pittsburgh and after receiving reports from the Negotiating Committee and ALPA's legal staff and advisors, unanimously passed the following resolution:
WHEREAS it is essential that the best interests of all US Airways pilots are represented, and
WHEREAS in order to protect the interests of the US Airways pilots, it is necessary to enter into negotiations with US Airways management to reach an agreement that attains those goals, and
WHEREAS it is also in the best interests of US Airways pilots to protect their rights under the Collective Bargaining Agreement,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC agrees to enter into negotiations targeted at protecting the jobs and seniority associated with MDA resulting from the Republic Holdings/US Airways agreement, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that those negotiations will take place in an expedited manner, and
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED THAT the US Airways MEC agrees, that should those negotiations reach an impasse, it will file a grievance and agree to strike arbitrators, and enter into immediate mandatory mediation followed by arbitration, if necessary.
As events unfold the MEC's of all US Airways' airlines will work together to protect the careers of every pilot employed by US Airways Group.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
With the pending investment agreement(s) and if a third party investor(s) creates a holding company that acquires and operates both US Airways and America West, all current CBA agreements must remain in place. Then before the companies merge Joint Negotiating committee's must be formed and they must negotiate new CBA's before workforces can be integrated.
ALPA has begun the work of protecting pilots and the first step is to portect MDA pilots, since there is an investment and asset transfer agreement with Republic that could be executed (By the way -- I have heard that the US Airways-Republic agreement could be executed and become effective on June 1).
On April 18 the MEC passed the following resolution:
The MEC convened its special meeting today in Pittsburgh and after receiving reports from the Negotiating Committee and ALPA's legal staff and advisors, unanimously passed the following resolution:
WHEREAS it is essential that the best interests of all US Airways pilots are represented, and
WHEREAS in order to protect the interests of the US Airways pilots, it is necessary to enter into negotiations with US Airways management to reach an agreement that attains those goals, and
WHEREAS it is also in the best interests of US Airways pilots to protect their rights under the Collective Bargaining Agreement,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC agrees to enter into negotiations targeted at protecting the jobs and seniority associated with MDA resulting from the Republic Holdings/US Airways agreement, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that those negotiations will take place in an expedited manner, and
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED THAT the US Airways MEC agrees, that should those negotiations reach an impasse, it will file a grievance and agree to strike arbitrators, and enter into immediate mandatory mediation followed by arbitration, if necessary.
As events unfold the MEC's of all US Airways' airlines will work together to protect the careers of every pilot employed by US Airways Group.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
- Thread Starter
- #3
USA320Pilot ,
Thanks for the quick reply. I think I posted the wrong questions. I am a CEL pilot and not an APL pilot. Do you think the CEL pilots will lose their rights to flow through as more possitions are created? Obviously, I am looking way down the road.
Thanks for the quick reply. I think I posted the wrong questions. I am a CEL pilot and not an APL pilot. Do you think the CEL pilots will lose their rights to flow through as more possitions are created? Obviously, I am looking way down the road.
Simply...
IF PSA and PDT remain Wholly owned after whatever transaction occurs, then they remain "wholly owned participating carriers", and the pilots of such are entitiled to the provisions that were in place before regarding the CEL.
IF PSA or PDT are sold off as part of this upcoming deal, then they are no longer "wholly owned participating carriers", and the pilots of PSA and PDT would no longer be eligible to remain upon the CEL, nor excersise the provisions in place.
So to answer your question, your own situation at PSA depends solely upon what happens to the ownership of your company in the upcoming deal. If it remains in the hands of the same holding company that is rumored will own/control US and HP then you "spot" remains. But if full or partial ownership is sold or traded to an outside affiliate then you lose your "spot" in line.
If your company reamins wholly owned, your "spot" in line remains, and that line goes in senority order from all the pilots that are/were at mainline prior to the first furlough, and then onto whichever pilots remain on the combinded eligibility list. If you are senior to apilot that came to MDA from the CEL, it is my understanding that you would retain that senority (your spot) upon arrival at Mainline... as long as full or partial ownership of PSA (in your case) is sold or traded to an outside affiliate.
Thats my read of it...
IF PSA and PDT remain Wholly owned after whatever transaction occurs, then they remain "wholly owned participating carriers", and the pilots of such are entitiled to the provisions that were in place before regarding the CEL.
IF PSA or PDT are sold off as part of this upcoming deal, then they are no longer "wholly owned participating carriers", and the pilots of PSA and PDT would no longer be eligible to remain upon the CEL, nor excersise the provisions in place.
So to answer your question, your own situation at PSA depends solely upon what happens to the ownership of your company in the upcoming deal. If it remains in the hands of the same holding company that is rumored will own/control US and HP then you "spot" remains. But if full or partial ownership is sold or traded to an outside affiliate then you lose your "spot" in line.
If your company reamins wholly owned, your "spot" in line remains, and that line goes in senority order from all the pilots that are/were at mainline prior to the first furlough, and then onto whichever pilots remain on the combinded eligibility list. If you are senior to apilot that came to MDA from the CEL, it is my understanding that you would retain that senority (your spot) upon arrival at Mainline... as long as full or partial ownership of PSA (in your case) is sold or traded to an outside affiliate.
Thats my read of it...
- Thread Starter
- #5
Thanks Rico. That really clears things up. Hopefully, for me and my buddies, PSA doesn't get sold. Our MEC at PSA did a poor job negotiating for us in the J4J deal. We gave up tons to get RJs and got really nothing in return besides flow through, and that is far from ever happening. Now, we could lose it all together. So much stuff is going to happen over the next year I guess I really shouldn't worry much about it.
Bluestreak:
I have to respectfully say, in the grand scheme of things, you guys made out like butchers dogs.
Ask any ALG or PDT pilot what they think and they will likely disagree with you as well.
Currently, I believe you have 40 JETS, which is 10 more JETS than you had turboprops. 30% of these jets are 70 seaters, which used to be mainline jets. If you get more, they will certainly be 90 seaters which is basically a DC-9. Of course you have to put up with all those pesky mainline refugees that are certainly clogging up your path to that quick upgrade, 1000 PIC and that SWA interview.
All this during two BK's for group. All this during the largest slap shot by any airline management in airline history, which has seen U mainline reduced by half.
Butchers dogs.
Boomer
I have to respectfully say, in the grand scheme of things, you guys made out like butchers dogs.
Ask any ALG or PDT pilot what they think and they will likely disagree with you as well.
Currently, I believe you have 40 JETS, which is 10 more JETS than you had turboprops. 30% of these jets are 70 seaters, which used to be mainline jets. If you get more, they will certainly be 90 seaters which is basically a DC-9. Of course you have to put up with all those pesky mainline refugees that are certainly clogging up your path to that quick upgrade, 1000 PIC and that SWA interview.
All this during two BK's for group. All this during the largest slap shot by any airline management in airline history, which has seen U mainline reduced by half.
Butchers dogs.
Boomer
Furloughedagain
Senior
What everyone has failed to mention here is the one ever constant attitude among active AAA pilots.... They eat their young, and the creation of the APL/CEL just gave them more to eat. For instance; did you notice where 320pilot called the MDA deal an "an investment and asset transfer agreement". The MDA pilots are fighting for a "change in control" to not lose more than 50% of the jobs already sold at half-price by the AAA MEC. 320pilot like most of the AAA MEC would like to eat their young again to have the deal over with by just letting the deal go as an "asset transfer". The problem with this now, is that more than 300 pilots have been paying dues for more than a year for AAA representation as "recalled AAA pilots" in the eyes of ALPA national. Now that makes things a little complicated.... They've been collecting dues since the day MDA started the first class of checkairman, but have yet to provide in any form, a written working agreement for the MDA pilots. Now they're backed into a corner having to represent the very same group or face legal action. Tough corner they have painted themselves into.
CaptainBoomer was correct, the PSA pilots have benefited greatly on the heels of mainline parking 150 aircraft and furloughing more than 1800 pilots. But thats business..... The J4J pilots at PSA are treated very poorly by the MEC who would still be spinning props on walk arounds were it not for the J4J agreement. If anyone ever thought that what was fair and right would ever have a place in the airline pilots career, they are terribly mistaken....
In short, anyone currently furloughed, on the APL, on the CEL, MDA, PSA, PDT, or in any way connected with the AAA will if it benefits the active group, get the shaft.....
CaptainBoomer was correct, the PSA pilots have benefited greatly on the heels of mainline parking 150 aircraft and furloughing more than 1800 pilots. But thats business..... The J4J pilots at PSA are treated very poorly by the MEC who would still be spinning props on walk arounds were it not for the J4J agreement. If anyone ever thought that what was fair and right would ever have a place in the airline pilots career, they are terribly mistaken....
In short, anyone currently furloughed, on the APL, on the CEL, MDA, PSA, PDT, or in any way connected with the AAA will if it benefits the active group, get the shaft.....
