What Hepac Can Do For You

[Sisyphus]

Butch Grafton founded the Professional Helicopter Pilots Association in the States. This is a step towards having helicopter pilots recognized as professionals. HEPAC can do the same for Canadians. Workers with professional status can more easily find work in the States.
Canadian pilots are generally held in high regard in the States due mainly to the wide variety of experience that the Canadian environment provides them.
The unionization of helicopter pilots has had positive benefits. Wages are going up. Hours worked are going down. Grievance procedures are in place. Pilots who find themselves with issues because they have refused to fly over-grossed machines, or in questionable weather, or live in substandard accommodations, or endure 42 consecutive 14 hour days no longer have to struggle against management by themselves
Both employers and employees agree to a contract. No longer are pilots subject to the whims of ‘at will employment’. There is a benefit for the employer as well. Customers who contract with unionized operators have the comfort of knowing that the operator’s labour force is stable.
While HEPAC is not a union, if enough pilots get behind it positive results will accrue, perhaps in a less confrontational manner than a union would produce.

 

[MagSeal]

"Customers who contract with unionized operators have the comfort of knowing that the operator’s labour force is stable"...also know that when contract talks come up, they can also be left in a situation which they would prefer not to be in, sometimes for a short while, other times for a long while.

 

[T-rex]

Mag,

You said it!!! When unions go on strike, the only ones getting paid are the union bosses!! Unless you consider the $50 bucks a week strike pay!!!

Aren't you a shop-steward by now Mag???

 

[MagSeal]

shhhh!

We don't want to spook them.

The last time there was a union drive here, we found out the hard way that management had moles implanted throughout our group and they successfully managed to infiltrate the ranks and destroy us from the inside out. :hide:

 

[VERTICAL REF]

All you gentleman that want to start a union, just remember what peter puck did to the gainers plant in edmonton...ask those boys if the union was such a great idea.

If you don't know what your contract states for tour length and renumeration before you sign it, then maybe a union rep could read it to you!

 

[cyclic monkey]

In Greek mythology Sisyphus is the guy that has to roll a big rock up a hill........but just when he gets to the top, it rolls back down and he has to start all over again.

Greek mythology is often used to make comparisons to situations in modern life, and I see one here.

Sisyphus (the modern one) is rolling the HEPAC rock up the hill. (He finds it will roll much easier when he reminds critics that it is an Association, not a Union).
But the result is the same each time. As he nears the top, you-know-who opens his mouth in the manner that we have come to know so well.......and the HEPAC rock rolls to the bottom again. Even after you-know-who announces he will step aside, he pops-up again just as Heli-copper and Albert Ross were trying to help roll the rock.

An Association will be of great use, and could do great things for many people.
But HEPAC will continue to be Sisyphus's perpetual rock until you-know-who gets off the top of the mountain.

In a previous topic I was labelled as a person who wanted to bring this Association down. However, the exact opposite is true. I would love to support this or any other Association, if you-know-who wasn't always pushing it back down the hill.

Good luck Sisyphus. But before you get too high up the hill, try re-reading "What's it worth" , (latest post March 15). It will give you a reminder of what's waiting for you at the top.

 

[bubbleboy]

A union of pilots working in "air taxi", would probably be the worst thing that could happen to the Canadian industry. Some of the larger more specialized operations i.e: IFR, might benefit from a union, but for the general charter stuff, it would be suicide. I could see a bunch of decent operators just say screw this nonsense and close up shop.

Cyclic Monkey: That was very tastefully said.

 

[Randy_G]

Pilots who find themselves with issues because they have refused to fly over-grossed machines, or in questionable weather

Sisyphus, I've never had an ops manager, chief pilot or owner ask/tell me to fly overgross, or in questionable weather. I've had the customer try to get me to do it, but never had anyone above me in the food chain try it. I have had management try to get me to bend some other regs. I asked them straight out whether they wanted me to break the regs. Their answer was always an absolute no. I have followed pilots on jobs who were lifting more than I could. I would lift as much as the machine, my own skill, and the weather would allow, but I wouldn't try to compete. I still got the job done. I was never run off of a job, and the clients were usually pleased with my work. If I said I wouldn't lift it, that was good enough for them. If it wasn't, then too frikken bad, I would move over to another load until they made the first one lighter. If someone you know is feeling pressure to do something illegal tell them that they, as pilot in command, is responsible for the safe operation of that craft. Not the owner, client, ops manager, chief pilot, cook, drill push, etc. Oh and something I just thought of, no union/association will back any member that knowingly commits an illegal act. Regardless of circumstance.

If HEPAC were going to speak on behalf of helicopter pilots/engineers with regards to new legislation or regulations, then most would agree that the idea has significant merit. As would creating, and offering educational programs for management, aircrews, marketing, and our customers. Additionally promoting flight safety would need to be fully addressed. Talking with Revenue Canada about getting tools, licensing fees tax deductable would be great too.

If you look at other professional associations, they are there to promote their profession, and to ensure that their members are behaving appropriately while they are performing the duties of that profession. They don't go and negotiate with every employer as to working conditions, salary, hours of employment. That's the job of a union. If you want a union, contact the CAW, or CUPE, CUPW, etc. They'll be more than glad to help, and increase their membership. An association may set a minimum fee that a member may charge for performing that service, but it is the member who gets in trouble if he doesn't charge that amount. Not the employer. If an association got involved with negotiating pay for every member, it most likely wouldn't have time to lobby TC on any new regs that may adversely affect us (AME's & pilots). Or work to increase safety in our industry.

 

[Elvis]

http://english.uindy.edu/english_331_docs/camus2.htm

 

[Blackmac]

RandyG; Jumpin Jimminy,somebody with common sence and a positive outlook on what the assoc. can do.

There are quite a few people on this site that do not agree with my approach to things.

For your enlightenment, I formed this assoc with my own money and handed it to the industry as present to make a change for yourself, not me, as I have already put up with more and made my way without any problems.

You have a chance to make a difference.

The structure of a non-profit organization is such that the membership has control over who leads the pack.

So instead of trying to bate me with I was going to join but not as long as blackmac is running the show, boo hoo.

SO, CYCLIC MOUSE, ROTORHEAD AND ALL THE OTHER NAY SAYERS, PUT YOUR MONEY WERE YOUR TYPED WORD IS AND JOIN THE ASSOC. AND VOTE OUT WHOEVER YOU WANT. JUST REMEMBER YOU HAVE TO VOTE SOMBODY ELSE IN. WHO IS WILLING TO PUT UP WITH YOUR PROCRASTINATION.

Otherwise enjoy life and leave me alone, I'm going to cry now.

Don McDougall

 

[jetbox]

Well said Randy G!!!!
As for you Blackmac, I don't know you from a hole in the ground so I have nothing against you or anyone else here whatsoever so don't be offended by my opinion:
I think an association such as HEPAC can have great benifits for pilots and engineers if it is run properly and with the right goals.
That being said, if you view HEPAC as being an association that should do for us the same as unions do for their members, NO THANKS!
In my experience, the only workers that favor unions are lazy bastards that are never happy with the money they get and are never willing to work for it.
In this day and age in the Canadian helicopters business, if you have any kind of experience as a pilot and/or engineer and have a good reputation, there is no reason whatsoever why you would still be working for an employer that demands more than what is fair from you.
The shortage of experienced, hard working and loyal employees in this business is such that you have the benefit of literaly picking and choosing who you want to work for.
If you are the kind of employee that is professional and safe, gets along with everybody and does his/her job the way you're FRIGGIN SUPOSED TO, then the operators will be lining up to offer you jobs. If throughout your career you've found yourself always having major issues with all of your employers then maybe the problem is with you, not them!!!
(When I say "you", I don't mean you Blackmac, I mean everybody in general )

"If HEPAC were going to speak on behalf of helicopter pilots/engineers with regards to new legislation or regulations, then most would agree that the idea has significant merit. As would creating, and offering educational programs for management, aircrews, marketing, and our customers. Additionally promoting flight safety would need to be fully addressed. Talking with Revenue Canada about getting tools, licensing fees tax deductable would be great too."
If these are the kind of goals set by HEPAC, then count me in. Otherwise, I don't need a union rep.

Let's not try to fix a problem that is not realy there!!!!!!

 

[Blackmac]

JetBox; Somebody must have kicked me in the head, two positive outlooks in two (2) days. I couldn't agree with you more.

Worst case scenario;

HEPAC which cannot be a union in accordance with federal rules for a non-profit organization. So, HEPAC decides, that having members in most companies, decides that company (=-/.,) is treating it's employee's bad, so it calls on all the other members to do whatever in support of those employees. Can you realistically see that happening.

The whole idea of an assoc. is the members, the board of directors only impliment what the membership allows through voting.

The only thing the president does is make sure that the organization runs in accordance with direction from the membership.

How much more democratic can you get.

If you were a member you can propose your idea's to the board of directors and if deemed valid, to the membership for a vote.

Should a majority of the employee's be HEPAC members we will represent them in any way that the by-laws of HEPAC, created by the HEPAC membership, allows.

Democratic membership makes the rules, NOT ME.


Thanks for your input.


Don McDougall

 

[cap]

In my decades in aviation one thing has remained constant and has not changed one little bit. If one can find five pilots that can even agree on the time of day, you should push on with your idea because you got a winner. Don't wait, but move quickly because two hours from now they will all disagree on the time of the day again. So Don, thanks for the effort from yours truly and I think you started a winner. Whether it flies or dies a natural death all depends on those pilots and engineers over there still trying to agree on the time of day. Ya got at least five, so you are batting .500 so far. Thanks again bud.

 

[Charles W.]

Hi Cap :

Pilots have, and always will be sodomized by the industry because of the nature of the beast. ( the beast refeering to pilots. )

A pilot is like a nymphomaniac, they just have to get screwed no matter what, and as often as possible.

What really gives me a little chuckle now and then is the smug attitude of many pilots who regurtate all the crap that they have been brainwashed into beleiving about decision making and how "complex" everything in aviation is, thus eliminating all of us that were unfortunate enough to have learned how to survive without smashing up our toys by actually doing it .

Anyhow if nothing else it is interesting to watch this play out here on my computer screen.

Rev. Chas W.

 

[Charles W.]

Sh.t, I spelled referring wrong and can't get the edit to work.

Wouldn't want everyone to think I'm completely illiterate.

Rev.