Who is Chip Munn?

[Busdrvr]

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On 6/3/2003 10:16:33 AM Diesel8 wrote:

"Well, had I been smart, I would not have chosen this career"


I''m with you on that


"Lawmakers have been considering openeing up the application again and would imagine that a few airlines, who was hoping for a better economy, would now consider applying. Of course, the argument will be that U, AWA and UAL got it, now AMR, NWA, CAL wants some. The circle continues!"

You can bet that if AMR (the Bush''s), NWA (the Daschle''s) and DAL (everybody from the south) needs the loan, it will come back. If so, i hope UAL is there in court lobbying against each and every one (especially the first two).



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[Busdrvr]

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On 6/1/2003 9:09:08 AM Ukridge wrote:

"Rod Eddington (chief of BA, and yes, from Australia) was a Rhodes and read physics while at Oxford. He deigns not to play the blue collar sweaty and cavort with the workers. His propositions are not leaked from various sources. In turn the workers do not insinuate themselves into the executive suite. The same goes with the head of Lufthansa and even more so with Air France whose leader himself is an X (very pedigreed French background)."


Which is one reason why US businesses have typically done better over the long term. If there was only one or two MAJOR airlines in the US, you can bet they'd be profitable, and the strength derived from home markets would prob have them destrying most overseas competitors. Whe have no "elite" classes. You can be born in a barn in the US and still rise to the top.


"Mr. Munn write so extensively concerning United and why in the name of all that is good and right in the world would Wall Street analysts relay information to him that could be better used to serve their clients?"


Chip reads a lot, and amazingly here in the US, executives WILL sometimes talk to employees. I've had face to face talks with Glenn Tilton, and we've exchanged e-mails. however, I also realize Glenn has an agenda, so I must ALWAYS consider that when listening to answers. Chip has an agenda (as does Dave and Dave), and he often IMHO looks at things that happen in such a way as to support his dreams.


"I would think that the other airlines smelled blood in the water and have done everything possible to make life miserable for United."


And it cost Carty his job, and may lead to even bigger troubles for Andersen. It's ironic that Carty lobbied lobbied against UAL's plan because his wouldn't work ("we know it won't work because it's the same as ours"), and that Anderson (NWA) made the case against UAL's pension obligations, while his were LARGER on a revenue adjusted level ("UAL can't pay pension expenses because our pension plan owes more and without an elaberate Ponzi Pinicle stock scheme, we can't possibly fund ours").


"Dissension in the executive staff at UAL? Yes, I hope so. Even your vaunted Bush administration has a rift as large as Europe between state and defence."

yes, dissension is GOOD!! BTW, we never shot, disembowled or beheaded political advisaries over here, so they are much more likely to speak their minds.


"The last question I have is that the October dip requirements are quoted as an almost drop-dead date. In other words, if United does not meet them then, ergo, liquidation is automatic. Would not these dip lenders reconsider the situation on a case basis?"


Just ask Chip. U missed it's last DIP requirements. The DIP requirements serve two purposes. They give us hurdles to use when beating lenders and labor over the head for concessions, and also set a level below which the lenders absolutely can't pull the plug (gives confidence to everybody else who extends credit on a day to day basis, like credit card companies). Is missing Dip a bad thing to do? YES, you lose what ever small control over you destiny. is it always the end of the world? NO. As to the threat of liquidation, consider this. What would someone pay for the PAC operation? How about LHR slots? IAD hub? ORD hub? SFO hub? LAX hub? Den hub? owned assets? How much more are those assest worth when taken together (ie NRT hub worth more when taken with the SFO hub, Lax hub, and even the tech laden DEN and IAD hubs). If you had money, why would you want pieces when you could get the entire thing for a whole lot less, with cheap labor, cheap leases, and defaulted debt? Missing DIP does NOT give the Dip lenders the right to "sell off" the airline. It gives them the right ot demand their money back. If somebody else steps up, it's now their game. There ARE other players willing to play. Our management had the ability to get a higher quality dip, which allowed them to have a bigger say in the direction of the company over a deal that put ONE egomaniac fund manager in charge.


"Ah, the real last question. If the government guarantees a loan, is this not a significant boost for United? "

Yes, a loan guarentee essentially equals a loan.

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[Diesel8]

"In any case, do you think, from you experience in the industry, that a little stability would be a good thing, or do you like the prospect of dusting off your resume every 5 years hoping this time it may actually work out?"

Well, had I been smart, I would not have chosen this career
But certainly, I must concede, some stability would be much welcomed, though I am not sure we will get it from governement loans, unless we are willing to allow continued access to the guarantee. Lawmakers have been considering openeing up the application again and would imagine that a few airlines, who was hoping for a better economy, would now consider applying. Of course, the argument will be that U, AWA and UAL got it, now AMR, NWA, CAL wants some. The circle continues!

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 6/3/2003 9:55:12 AM Diesel8 wrote:


"IMHO, the government should stay out of private enterprises, certainly it can be argued, that if U was allowed to fail, UAL could have seen recovery. As well as a few other carriers, I might add.

Unfortunately, U was given a loan guarantee, without which, no one would have loaned them money.

If UAL is now offered a loan guarantee, then, in my humble opinion, it is only a matter of time before the next domino falls, AMR perhaps. Then what? Another loan guarantee?"

You are correct, had the government NOT extended the guarentee, or the cash for that matter, CAL would have been in BK by 1 jan 2002, U would be gone and capacity would be reduced. As a matter of fact, if you look at DEN biggest comp in DEN, FRNT, a case could be made that had they not gotten the loan and the gov check this last Q, they would have been insolvent, not BK, insolvent. That surely would have been good for UAL. But in any case, eveybody could have applied for a loan. The window is closed. AMR and other played a VERY high stakes gamble that the econmy would take UAL out followed by a recovery that would bring them riches. they may have crapped out.

"UAL certainly deserves the same consideration. But how will that shape the competetive and financial health of the industry in the future to come?''

We have to pay it back. It shouldn''t matter. How would "allowing" airlines to fail "help" the industry long term? Do you think if AMR controlled 45% of the market and DAL 45% of the market, there would be room for other airlines to start up? Why do you think the little guys lobbied agaisnt the U and UAL merger? The simple truth is that without government intervention, there would be no Jblu, Valudeath, and possibly no SWA. The big guys would have taken all of them out in the early years with predatory pricing, and nobody would have been financing startups. In any case, do you think, from you experience in the industry, that a little stability would be a good thing, or do you like the prospect of dusting off your resume every 5 years hoping this time it may actually work out?

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[Ukridge]

Busdrvr: "We have no "elite" classes. You can be born in a barn in the US and still rise to the top."

Well, we had that toff Mr. Branson who acts as if he were born in a barn develop the Virgin name. As an aside I would contend that many European and Asian companies have outpaced their North American competitors nicely - one need only look at Virgin, BMW, VW, Siemens and others to see that irrespective of the means in which they gained capital, they still produce products that are purchased by the world''s consumers. I would also contend that you have "elites." Every county does. The Kennedys? The DuPonts? The Bushes? What you used to call the Philadelphia Main Line? Who are the denizens of Fifth Avenue? I ask this not in contention but rather that some own the means of production and capital - others do the work and often the interests are not the same.

Perhaps I did employ the wrong analogy though and I certainly did not intend to demean the status of those who perform the labour. As you colonialists would say - it is a "positional thing." You were more to the point in correctly questioning what is the motivation of the staff in leaking such information. Yes, British workers do talk to the staff - one need only think of General Montgomery''s famous time with the lads before the desert battles in the Second Great War. You perceptively noted that though discussions may occur, you are wary of the driving motive behind the words. This sums up well my entire original question of what motivates the high level staff to release such information to a worker of the line?

If however, as you contend, Mr. Munn gleans his information from reading open source material, then I would query as to why he then makes a market of writing in a style that purports to be "revealing" great and arcane knowledge and fact? So, we are to the point where we ask is it the goose or the gander? If he is merely a collector and disseminator of open source material fine. If however, the info comes from the "highest" levels. I, as do you, ask why? It comes to wit that the consumer wishes to make an intelligent choice and seeks information. If the information source is not reliable though, then there is a problem.

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 6/3/2003 2:40:16 PM PineyBob wrote:


"As to your comment about cash on hand. I was referring to Mr. Wolf''s decision to buy back 1,5 billion in US stock. Which goes directly to the self serving and arrogance of the executives."


Ah, the law of unintended consequences. Congress decides to "cap" executive pay by taxing the heck out of amounts over one mill a year. So what do enterprising BOD''s and CEO''s do to "attract and retain talent", the give out stock options. now the value of the stock is more important than the value of the company.


"That''s the main reason the unions are relatively militant."


Companies usually get the unions they deserve. I''ve never heard of employees unionizing because the company was treating them too good.

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[firstamendment]

I am so sick of UAL employees thinking that all of us at U view UAL as our savior. Chip Munn is one man. His opinions do not reflect everyone at U. U is a *deleted by moderator* up airline, but so is UAL. Why in the hell would I want your irresponsable, arrogant, denial driven management team coming close to my company? You people are just as close to biting it as U, so get off your holier-than-thou high horse. It's time both airlines shut the hell up with the rhetoric and take care of themselves. Meanwhile, the real enemy is SWA, JBLU, and Airtran. You people are fighting the wrong enemies. SAD

 

[N230UA]

"REFUSAL TO ADDRESS THE LCC THREAT"

Excuse, me, PineyBob?

This is one area where UA has stood out from the rest of the crowd.

Perhaps the only useful thing to come out of McKinsey''s "Plan for Transformation" was the admission and cold, hard truth presented of how successful WN is compared to UA.

UA envies WN''s culture, productivity, and costs.

It has repeatedly stated it is commited to crafting some sort of plan to compete.

While UA has yet to finalize that plan, at least it has extremely strong intentions.

 

[767jetz]

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On 6/4/2003 3:55:17 PM firstamendment wrote:

It's time both airlines shut the hell up with the rhetoric and take care of themselves.

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I couldn't agree with that statement more. I have said for a long time that certain people, Chip in particular, should focus their energy on getting their own house in order.

I must point out to you that most UA employees on this site do not waste time prognasticating on the fate of USAir. It is Chip Munn who starts these threads with HIS holier-than-thou attitude, and the UA employees who respond to his rhetoric. Very few people around here think that UAL or U can be the savior of anyone but themselves. Most would be happy if U would just mind their business and stop predicting our failure.

 

[firstamendment]

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On 6/4/2003 5:41:29 PM 767jetz wrote:

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On 6/4/2003 3:55:17 PM firstamendment wrote:

It''s time both airlines shut the hell up with the rhetoric and take care of themselves.

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I couldn''t agree with that statement more. I have said for a long time that certain people, Chip in particular, should focus their energy on getting their own house in order.

I must point out to you that most UA employees on this site do not waste time prognasticating on the fate of USAir. It is Chip Munn who starts these threads with HIS holier-than-thou attitude, and the UA employees who respond to his rhetoric. Very few people around here think that UAL or U can be the savior of anyone but themselves. Most would be happy if U would just mind their business and stop predicting our failure.

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You are so right on!! This trying to predict crap serves no useful purpose. It''s hard enough to predict which crazy decision will come next fron our own management darlings, mustless UAL''s. But I must say, the craziness will intensify with you guys as your loan application will become the added threat to liquidate if not approved with added conditions that the govt will impose. Watch out.

 

[Fly]

I''m sorry to hear that Piney Bob. I wish I could give you a free ticket just so we could do our best to bring you back. I''m sorry for the obvious mistreatment you received with us and hope that if you ever get the guts to try again that you have a wonderful experience.

 

[iflyjetz]

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On 6/6/2003 7:12:50 AM PineyBob wrote:
But most times I feel sad for the good honest hard working folks at UA who are customer oriented and courteous. I just feel really sad that I only ever met one. In my head I know this, but in my heart and wallet. I just can''t bring myself to buy a ticket yet.

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Bob,
My apologies for the unfriendly service that you received at UAL; probably around the summer of 2000 or later? Customer service and employee infighting are two things that I have hated about UAL.
However, it looks like things are finally starting to turn around on the customer service side of the house; I''ve flown UAL several times since being laid off and have noticed better service. Of course, that''s traveling as a MP Premier, so that may have made a bit of difference.
As for employee infighting, I suppose that will continue for quite a while. Sad, really, that management, FAs, CSRs, mechanics, pilots, baggage handlers, and everyone else employed at UAL can''t just work as a team, rather than automatically hating another person because of their job within the company.

 

[flyer9]

If you fly into Orange County Airport (also known as John Wayne), you will have a very short drive to Dana Point....about 15 minutes. You could also fly into either LAX or San Diego, but the drive would be far longer, and the traffic on the freeway would drive you nuts!

 

[av8orwife]

Bob,
You can also fly USAirways through PIT to SNA, John Wayne Airport. It is a really nice airport, small and simple. And Dana Point is not far. It would be quite a drive from LAX especially in LA traffic to Orange County, I speak from having lived in the LA area for 15 years and have family who live in Orange County. San Diego is nice, but it would also be at least a 90 minute drive to Dana Point. So unless you have extra time to site see in San Diego, your best bet is Orange County, SNA.

Have a great trip.

KJB

 

[exagony]

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On 6/8/2003 1:16:32 PM av8orwife wrote:

Bob,
You can also fly USAirways through PIT to SNA, John Wayne Airport. It is a really nice airport, small and simple. And Dana Point is not far. It would be quite a drive from LAX especially in LA traffic to Orange County, I speak from having lived in the LA area for 15 years and have family who live in Orange County. San Diego is nice, but it would also be at least a 90 minute drive to Dana Point. So unless you have extra time to site see in San Diego, your best bet is Orange County, SNA.

Have a great trip.
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And all the way out there on US Scare you can hear the flight attendents #### and moan about how they have to actually work for a change instead of reading the latest issue of Cosmo in the back. The planes are filthy and service is lacking to say the least. Piney Bob keeps saying he has great service on U. I'd like to know which flights they are because I haven't seen it or maybe he has low expectations (not a slam) EVERY time I fly on UA, which is often, my biggest complaint is that UA's FA's are always coming around to ask you if you need more cofee, soda etc. On US Bareways you'll be lucky if the FA's come around more than once.