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Why AMP?

strikeforce

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Please provide some compelling reasons on why AMP should displace the TWU as our bargaining agent. I know WE need change, but the way I see it is.....the name will change, but the faces stay the same. In order to achieve real change within our organization....different faces need to step up to the plate and lead! I personally believe that's not going to happen, especially on a large scale throughout the locals.
 
Please provide some compelling reasons on why the TWU needs to stay our bargaining agent.
 
Please provide some compelling reasons on why AMP should displace the TWU as our bargaining agent. I know WE need change, but the way I see it is.....the name will change, but the faces stay the same. In order to achieve real change within our organization....different faces need to step up to the plate and lead! I personally believe that's not going to happen, especially on a large scale throughout the locals.

You couldn't be more wrong.

The rules are what need change. The constitution is key to everything.

You could put new names and faces to step up to the plate, but there's no way the TWU will ever let go of the keys to the kingdom.

In recent years, you've seen very outspoken guys like Ken McT and Bob O., and Chuck S. get elected to office.

How much "hope and change" have they really been able to effect within the boundaries of the TWU constitution?

Nada. Zilch. Bupkis.
 
Please provide some compelling reasons on why AMP should displace the TWU as our bargaining agent. I know WE need change, but the way I see it is.....the name will change, but the faces stay the same. In order to achieve real change within our organization....different faces need to step up to the plate and lead! I personally believe that's not going to happen, especially on a large scale throughout the locals.

As long as TWU higher ups are APPOINTED and NOT ELECTED,,,Things will never change.
Crony after Crony will forever be appointed to key positions. They will always be able to BUY local presidents' votes with promises of International positions.
Until we get to vote on EVERY TWU INTERNATIONAL OFFICIAL,,,,,THINGS WILL NEVER CHANGE!

Don't believe me? Just ask Little's secretarty!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVZewhIW_bU&feature=player_embedded






Watch the video then go to this link
http://www.ampnational.org/goals.html
 
Please provide some compelling reasons on why the TWU needs to stay our bargaining agent.
I'm not against change....I signed an AMP card, so did many @ ORD, but I think it's prudent to know all the ins and outs about AMP so the membership can make a wise decision. I think it's fair to say that a majority of the membership, including me, doesn't know a whole lot about AMP. Let me ask......Is AMP planning road shows to the Class 1's so we can meet our future leaders? @ ORD, we haven't heard anything about AMP, except to go on their website to find out about this organization. Very minimal information.....sort of what we get from the TWU!
 
We have had this old dog for many, many years and it DON'T HUNT!!! Never has and never will!!!!!! It just lays on the poarch and licks its nuts. Also pisses on everything and shits in the house. We have no dog in this hunt. I would take any dog rather than keep this proven useless mutt!!!
 
Please provide some compelling reasons on why AMP should displace the TWU as our bargaining agent. I know WE need change, but the way I see it is.....the name will change, but the faces stay the same. In order to achieve real change within our organization....different faces need to step up to the plate and lead! I personally believe that's not going to happen, especially on a large scale throughout the locals.

I would really like to know the answer to why we should displace with AMP myself. AMP blossomed about the time we voted on the mediated TA. Some here complain they want change and are willing to go the path of the AMP, but understand this, AMP would fall under the same rules the TWU falls under for contract negotiations per the Railway Labor Act...

If AMP were to take us over in mediated talks under the RLA how would they handle themselves? How would they persuade the mediator and the company to move faster to bring back a TA?

This is the current position we are under with the TWU. Mediated negotiations. How would the AMP out perform the TWU?
 
I would really like to know the answer to why we should displace with AMP myself. AMP blossomed about the time we voted on the mediated TA. Some here complain they want change and are willing to go the path of the AMP, but understand this, AMP would fall under the same rules the TWU falls under for contract negotiations per the Railway Labor Act...

If AMP were to take us over in mediated talks under the RLA how would they handle themselves? How would they persuade the mediator and the company to move faster to bring back a TA?

This is the current position we are under with the TWU. Mediated negotiations. How would the AMP out perform the TWU?

Since you have a "stake" in loosing a 514 scam it appears you already know the answer to your question, you got yours,
Everyone knows why you post like you do, you are scared you will loose your scam. How can we persuade the international to have their wages set to ours ? (answer we cannot) you most likely will not understand the question so forget it.
 
Please provide some compelling reasons on why AMP should displace the TWU as our bargaining agent. I know WE need change, but the way I see it is.....the name will change, but the faces stay the same. In order to achieve real change within our organization....different faces need to step up to the plate and lead! I personally believe that's not going to happen, especially on a large scale throughout the locals.

Hey guy....you know what?...they said the-same-thing at NWA. "Name will change, but same BS, different name".
Well...guess what. When they went AMFA, other people realizing that a new constitution, new policies/rules governing the union would be in place,
suddenly became game for a shop steward position, a local official position(if the local members desired his services/elected him).
I think you guys at AA will be surprised at who will surprisingly step up and say "OK, I'll give it a whirl, if the guys really think I'm what they're looking for"...
Honest, it's a different deal man...
 
Since you have a "stake" in loosing a 514 scam it appears you already know the answer to your question, you got yours,
Everyone knows why you post like you do, you are scared you will loose your scam. How can we persuade the international to have their wages set to ours ? (answer we cannot) you most likely will not understand the question so forget it.

X2 🙄
 
Hey guy....you know what?...they said the-same-thing at NWA. "Name will change, but same BS, different name".
Well...guess what. When they went AMFA, other people realizing that a new constitution, new policies/rules governing the union would be in place,
suddenly became game for a shop steward position, a local official position(if the local members desired his services/elected him).
I think you guys at AA will be surprised at who will surprisingly step up and say "OK, I'll give it a whirl, if the guys really think I'm what they're looking for"...
Honest, it's a different deal man...
I agree! However, AMFA at NWA failed because they were on an island by themselves. No help from ramp, pilots, f/a.....nobody, not even the AMT's from other airlines supported them. Believe it or not, affiliation with large union organizations benefits everybody when the war starts. Look, nobody wins in a strike....NWA benefited from a pool of layed off scabs. AMFA lost because there was no support from fellow union members. Period. I'm afraid AMP will suffer the same. We're going to be on an island by ourselves if we strike, and or look for support from other union organizations.
At the local level, the problem is us! we've lost touch with unionism. It's all about me. Individualism! Deals! However, if we start caring for each other, and standing up for the other guy, things will change. The TWU Constitution didn't cause this.
 
I agree! However, AMFA at NWA failed because they were on an island by themselves. No help from ramp, pilots, f/a.....nobody, not even the AMT's from other airlines supported them. Believe it or not, affiliation with large union organizations benefits everybody when the war starts. Look, nobody wins in a strike....NWA benefited from a pool of layed off scabs. AMFA lost because there was no support from fellow union members. Period. I'm afraid AMP will suffer the same. We're going to be on an island by ourselves if we strike, and or look for support from other union organizations.
At the local level, the problem is us! we've lost touch with unionism. It's all about me. Individualism! Deals! However, if we start caring for each other, and standing up for the other guy, things will change. The TWU Constitution didn't cause this.

Well...strike, this is the thing...and there's really no getting around this. When you're with a catch-all union, they know who there "numbers" are(ie, ramp, clerical, stock/material etc), and it's these people, frankly, who are the ones who stand to gain the most at contract time-off our backs of course. Also, we mechanics are a tool the industrial unions have used at the negotiating table(for decades-and the only group the company fears striking-aside from the flight crews)to win the gains they wish for the rest of the membership. And of course the mechs, being the minority in these unions, once again, take it in the shorts.
Which is why, the NWA mechs broke away from the other groups. I don't think anyone needs to me to point out how NWA corp prepared for the inevitable...to bust AMFA before it swept the entire industry. And btw, AK mechs(AMFA)walked with NW mechs up here in SEA. I do know others walked with NW mechs elsewhere. But it was really the pilots & f/as strolling right through the striking mechs that really screwed up the AMFA strike. Had they not crossed, we'd all have a very different story about the NWA/AMFA ordeal. Ask the WN mechs about what they think about AMFA representation.

I've said over and again, I do believe the union(whoever is rep the mechs)has to be realistic with the company while nego a contract-being mindful of the financial health of the company at contract time. But as far as I'd be concerned...if I was at AA as a mech(and I hope to be before too long), staying with the dreaded, pathetic TWU would NOT be an option. I would rather roll the dice on our own and negotiate OUR deal and let the others stand on there own. And we'll see how long the Co farts around with them, standing alone. If I was AA mgnt nego team, I'd toss an offer on the table(being as fair as I can be with basically unskilled labor)and tell them take it or leave it. And have a plan B...we all know what plan B would be too. It is what it is man.
Entry level, unskilled labor is a starting point in the company. The TWU has managed to turn them into high paid career positions the company never intended to pay. Take from the unskilled and compensate the skilled, talented, liability shouldering AMTs keeping your fricken fleet airworthy! Honestly, I would think AA would savour the opportunity to see this play out.

I'm sure you know all this man. If you guys are ever going to get a decent deal, AA mechs are just going to have to take a leap of faith and go it alone and get your own deal. Be reasonable, stay smart/strong/united and get a decent contract AND decent language(equally important)-see if the Co can it back on track-then go after the top dollar figure. I believe if AMP operates honestly, openly and with integrity, I believe it work. Like I said...I don't know about you, but staying with the TWU is NOT an option! It can't get any worse!
 
strike,

"However, if we start caring for each other, and standing up for the other guy, things will change. The TWU Constitution didn't cause this."

Caring for each other is needed as well as standing up for each other. You are right the twu constituition did not cause this but it has allowed it to fester and spread.

The twu faithful miss the entire arguement for having AMP. (Or more realistically ignore it.) AMP has NEVER said we will bring everyone "pie in the sky" and neither does the AMP Constitution.

I have been with AA for almost 25 years and there are thousands of quality men and women in our craft and class. But as in most things in life the few rotten apples spoil the whole bunch. The twu international doesn't care about us as a whole "professional" group they care only about the dues. This last t/a is a HUGE indication of this fact. This last t/a was a career killer and would have effectively dumbed/watered down our craft.

When, not if, AMP is certified at AA I believe that many from the thousands of quality men and women in our craft and class will step up to the plate because they will see an opportunity for a fresh start. There are many locals that fight for the membership and they will continue to do so after AMP comes in. These locals understand the international is unaccountable and is broken and benefits only those chosen to be "appointed". These locals were elected by the membership and will continue to do so but with AMP so will the National Officers. I am looking forward to having true democratic tools at our disposal to move our craft and class forward. Because right now we do not have that with the twu international.

With AMP people like hss and cio will have to step out into the light because their personal "scams" will end.
 
strike,

"However, if we start caring for each other, and standing up for the other guy, things will change. The TWU Constitution didn't cause this."

Caring for each other is needed as well as standing up for each other. You are right the twu constituition did not cause this but it has allowed it to fester and spread.

The twu faithful miss the entire arguement for having AMP. (Or more realistically ignore it.) AMP has NEVER said we will bring everyone "pie in the sky" and neither does the AMP Constitution.

I have been with AA for almost 25 years and there are thousands of quality men and women in our craft and class. But as in most things in life the few rotten apples spoil the whole bunch. The twu international doesn't care about us as a whole "professional" group they care only about the dues. This last t/a is a HUGE indication of this fact. This last t/a was a career killer and would have effectively dumbed/watered down our craft.

When, not if, AMP is certified at AA I believe that many from the thousands of quality men and women in our craft and class will step up to the plate because they will see an opportunity for a fresh start. There are many locals that fight for the membership and they will continue to do so after AMP comes in. These locals understand the international is unaccountable and is broken and benefits only those chosen to be "appointed". These locals were elected by the membership and will continue to do so but with AMP so will the National Officers. I am looking forward to having true democratic tools at our disposal to move our craft and class forward. Because right now we do not have that with the twu international.

With AMP people like hss and cio will have to step out into the light because their personal "scams" will end.
Ken,
I agree with everything you said. However, the majority of the mechanics, at least in Chicago, don't know much about AMP. AMP has done a poor job marketing itself in Chicago. I know the numbers are at the Bases, but don't forget when the war starts, it's going to start at the Class 1's not TUL or AFW.
Which brings me to another issue regarding negotiations and the Bases, particularly TUL. I've been around for over 20 years, and it's been very clear to me that TUL obviously dictates what the Line gets from each contract. This is a huge problem for US line guys. Will AMP seperate overhaul and line during negotiations? Better yet, will AMP look to have each local negotiate their own geographical pay, like UPS does with it's truck drivers in Chicago (Local 705).
I believe AMP can be a huge success if TUL and the LINE negotiate seperately and vote seperately on the final TA. Just a thought.
 
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