Will the TWU support the Flight Attendants if they walk?

[proAMT]

taken from UPDATES page on www.514defenders.org

Someone asked me last week, "Do we support the Flight Attendants if they walk?"
I told him I don't know if the yahoo's at the hall do but Kevin and I d mn sure do.

I thought to myself why is this even a question? Are we not stuck in the same struggle?

This person should not have to wonder whether or not our union or our local will support the Flight Attendants.

#1 problem with unionism today IMHO-We don't look out for each other.

In Solidarity,

Dennis

 

[jimntx]

Thanks for the sentiment of support, but to paraphrase President Clinton, "Define support." The RLA prohibits sympathy strikes. All of us have our hands tied, so to speak, if another union walks out.

Of course, if any of us walks, I think it brings the airline to a full and complete ground stop. The company may get permission to hire replacement f/as, and they may even try it. But, I don't see them getting 10,000+ trained and certified in time to do any good. And, I think it would take something in the neighborhood of 10,000 f/as to keep operating some semblance of a "normal" schedule. They might get away with moving some of the flying to AE on the shorter routes--DFW-AUS, ORD-STL, but there is a point at which even AE gets maxed out.

I guess it's one thing for which we can say "thank god for the TSA." Or, whoever it is who does the background checks. They ain't all that fast at it.

It just occurred to me that if the pilots or the f/as walk, the biggest support that the mechanics could provide would be to show up to work in full force. You get paid to maintain airplanes that are sitting on the ground not generating revenue.
With us and the pilots they can call us at home and tell us our flight is cancelled, and that's it. We don't get paid. But, you guys could run up some healthy payroll costs while planes are not in the air. After all, the RLA also prohibits lockouts.

 

[700UW]

If the RLA prohibits sympathy strikes why did the TWU and ALPA honor the IAM strike at EA?

Why did all the airlines strike in like 69 also?

And at US there are provisions in each CBA that you cant be disciplined for honoring a legal picket line, does the TWU CBA contain the same?

 

[goodgirl37]

Thanks for the sentiment of support, but to paraphrase President Clinton, "Define support." The RLA prohibits sympathy strikes. All of us have our hands tied, so to speak, if another union walks out.

Of course, if any of us walks, I think it brings the airline to a full and complete ground stop. The company may get permission to hire replacement f/as, and they may even try it. But, I don't see them getting 10,000+ trained and certified in time to do any good. And, I think it would take something in the neighborhood of 10,000 f/as to keep operating some semblance of a "normal" schedule. They might get away with moving some of the flying to AE on the shorter routes--DFW-AUS, ORD-STL, but there is a point at which even AE gets maxed out.

I guess it's one thing for which we can say "thank god for the TSA." Or, whoever it is who does the background checks. They ain't all that fast at it.

It just occurred to me that if the pilots or the f/as walk, the biggest support that the mechanics could provide would be to show up to work in full force. You get paid to maintain airplanes that are sitting on the ground not generating revenue.
With us and the pilots they can call us at home and tell us our flight is cancelled, and that's it. We don't get paid. But, you guys could run up some healthy payroll costs while planes are not in the air. After all, the RLA also prohibits lockouts.

You need to get it out of your head, that they (AMR) cant train your replacements in time. With the way the law is set up, 30 day cooling off etc. . . your replacements can easily be trained, even before, I wish that werent the case but it is. your not in the 90's anymore... face it!

 

[eolesen]

RLA prohibits lockouts for other workgroups, but both sides have their nuclear options... AA's option is "emergency leave" which essentially is a force majeure lockout. FM applies because as long as you're negotiating until the last moment, legally, you can't predict there's going to be a labor action...

One of the less glamorous things I worked at AA was revise the contingency plan for the ten minute 1997 APA strike, which was to shut down the airline over a 48 hour period.

My portion was fleet and passenger service, and "Emergency Leave" was to be declared for all employees (a majority sent home immediately & paid in lieu of notice), with less than 10% of all employees (including management) being left on property after 5 days, and about 2% remaining after two weeks. That was before electronic tickets and the internet were as widespread as they are today, so that number would probably shrink faster today.

I hope it's never used, but I don't see AA trying a repeat of 1993. The response to the snow events last month have shown it's cheaper to simply shut down. WN posted higher than expected RASM last week, due in part to massive cancellations forcing higher load factors on the flights that actually operated....

 

[Hopeful]

It is correct that the RLA prohibits sympathy strikes. Also, out contract has a no strike/no lockout provision. We would be in violation of our CBA and under the RLA would face penalties even against the individual.
What should be done, is if any work group strikes, the other two unions on the property will ensure that the operation is affected accordingly.
I am sure the company pundits will argue that it would drive passengers away. So be it.
If the company refuses to negotiate in good faith and continue the decimation of the airline worker, then they must be willing to accept the consequences.

 

[Hopeful]

If the RLA prohibits sympathy strikes why did the TWU and ALPA honor the IAM strike at EA?

Why did all the airlines strike in like 69 also?

And at US there are provisions in each CBA that you cant be disciplined for honoring a legal picket line, does the TWU CBA contain the same?

When the IAM struck EAL, the other unions knew they were next on Lorenzo's chopping block.
Lorenzo wanted to break the unions once and for all, and sacrifices were made.
Tens of thousands of jobs were lost, personal and financial heartaches overwhelmed all those affected.
And if you speak to any former EAL union member, they would do it all over again. That is my experience with those that I personally know.
They took more pride in not giving in to the most radical and unfair demands in aviation labor/management history.
The result brought light to Lorenzo's unfair labor practices and eventually he was banned from any control or investment in the airline industry.

That alone was worth those sacrifices.

The company pundits can't imagine jeopardizing such a wonderful generous employment with such a wonderful and generous management team.

By the same token, I believe Obama would intervene and a PEB appointed.
The big difference here would be that if AA was not to get the favorable outcome they might get, they would file bankruptcy.

 

[Bob Owens]

Thanks for the sentiment of support, but to paraphrase President Clinton, "Define support." The RLA prohibits sympathy strikes. All of us have our hands tied, so to speak, if another union walks out.

Of course, if any of us walks, I think it brings the airline to a full and complete ground stop. The company may get permission to hire replacement f/as, and they may even try it. But, I don't see them getting 10,000+ trained and certified in time to do any good. And, I think it would take something in the neighborhood of 10,000 f/as to keep operating some semblance of a "normal" schedule. They might get away with moving some of the flying to AE on the shorter routes--DFW-AUS, ORD-STL, but there is a point at which even AE gets maxed out.

I guess it's one thing for which we can say "thank god for the TSA." Or, whoever it is who does the background checks. They ain't all that fast at it.

It just occurred to me that if the pilots or the f/as walk, the biggest support that the mechanics could provide would be to show up to work in full force. You get paid to maintain airplanes that are sitting on the ground not generating revenue.
With us and the pilots they can call us at home and tell us our flight is cancelled, and that's it. We don't get paid. But, you guys could run up some healthy payroll costs while planes are not in the air. After all, the RLA also prohibits lockouts.

The NLRA prohibits sympathy strikes, the RLA allows them. Thats why the IAM was going to set up pickets at the Railroads when they struck EAL, but a court injunction prevented them from doing so. So we have rights on the books but all they need is a crook on the bench to take them away. Sure we can challenge it in court and a year or two down the road a higher court will say that the lower court should not have done that, thus the rule of law has been upheld, but the damage is already done.

The laws are not in our favor, despite that, they resort to injunctions to reinterpret them if we find a way to gain any leverage, we need to realize that we must do what is just and not just what is legal. Not going to work should never be considered a crime. I think the 13th Amendment covered that.

 

[Bob Owens]

When the IAM struck EAL, the other unions knew they were next on Lorenzo's chopping block.
Lorenzo wanted to break the unions once and for all, and sacrifices were made.
Tens of thousands of jobs were lost, personal and financial heartaches overwhelmed all those affected.
And if you speak to any former EAL union member, they would do it all over again. That is my experience with those that I personally know.
They took more pride in not giving in to the most radical and unfair demands in aviation labor/management history.
The result brought light to Lorenzo's unfair labor practices and eventually he was banned from any control or investment in the airline industry.

That alone was worth those sacrifices.

The sad fact is that two decades after Lorenzo was banned the airlines got everything he was looking for without one single day of lost productivity due to labor resistance.

Look back at what Lorenzo wanted, then look at the charts on our latest update (twu562.org). Paywise, benifit wise, work rule wise, the Airlines got everything Lorenzo was trying to get and they only faced one strike, that was AMFA. The industry welcomed that showdown and the other unions helped NWA crush them. Its sickening to even think about it. All the big unions sat on their hands while all of Lorenzos aspirations became a reality for the airlines and did nothing. In their quest to make AMFA look bad they betrayed all airline workers and especially the proud EAL workers who gave it their all to prevent it.

If this aint the bottom I dont know what is and I dont have any intentions on finding out. Economy or not I will be willing to walk. We must support the FAs because as Ben Franlkin said "We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately"

 

[TWU informer]

I hope it's never used, but I don't see AA trying a repeat of 1993. The response to the snow events last month have shown it's cheaper to simply shut down. WN posted higher than expected RASM last week, due in part to massive cancellations forcing higher load factors on the flights that actually operated....

Cheaper to shut it down huh.
Bring it on and let's see if that is really true.

Then we will visit the Corporate Welfare agreements tied to employment and the US Postal Service Mail Contracts worth.

I am so tired of management Fear Mongering threats I am ready to call some of them out, at least if they are true management suffers right along with us rather lining their pockets are our expense when we cower to their threats.

Bring it ON!

As for TWU supporting F/A's...

Sure the letter of support will be printed, and individual members will walk the picket llines in support. Beyond that, expect the International to sit on their hands.

 

[eolesen]

The NLRA prohibits sympathy strikes, the RLA allows them. Thats why the IAM was going to set up pickets at the Railroads when they struck EAL, but a court injunction prevented them from doing so. So we have rights on the books but all they need is a crook on the bench to take them away. Sure we can challenge it in court and a year or two down the road a higher court will say that the lower court should not have done that, thus the rule of law has been upheld, but the damage is already done.

Let's see... a judge receives a request by several commuter railroads and Amtrak for injunctive relief against picket lines being set up at locations that have nothing to do with airlines or air travel. Then he makes a ruling that is also consistent with the law covering the majority of unions in the country.

Yep. That makes one a crook...

Here's the judge's unofficial rating from lawyers:

http://www.therobingroom.com/Judge.aspx?ID=1422

He's got a 93% approval rating, and most of those casting votes LOST cases in his courtroom. If the losing side found him to be worthy of a high approval rating, surely he must be on the take... really.

Setting up a picket line to try and block other unions from entering your property or struck work is one thing, but to put up picket line in an unrelated area intending to cause harm to unrelated people and companies is just a step removed from thuggery.

 

[Kev3188]

It just occurred to me that if the pilots or the f/as walk, the biggest support that the mechanics could provide would be to show up to work in full force. You get paid to maintain airplanes that are sitting on the ground not generating revenue.

This is what happened at NW during the pilot's strike (at ALPA's request). Everyone went to work to try and increase the financial pressure on the company. Eventually, they implemented gradual layoffs (and subsequent recalls).

 

[lineguy43]

This is what happened at NW during the pilot's strike (at ALPA's request). Everyone went to work to try and increase the financial pressure on the company. Eventually, they implemented gradual layoffs (and subsequent recalls).

Actually at my station MEM. My layoff was immediate. On the MX side you had to have 1983 seniority or better to stay. I was able to collect one week of unemployment though of a 2 week strike.

 

[Kev3188]

Interesting...

I made it a week, and then got got laid off for 10 days (I think?).

 

[Bob Owens]

Let's see... a judge receives a request by several commuter railroads and Amtrak for injunctive relief against picket lines being set up at locations that have nothing to do with airlines or air travel. Then he makes a ruling that is also consistent with the law covering the majority of unions in the country.

"also consistant with the law covering the majority of unions in the country"
But not consistant with the RLA. If they put us under the NLRA, where we can strike when the company violates the contract and not "obey then grieve fine. But then again the day a contract becomes amendable we can shut it down, no three years of negotiations, no cooldown periods, no PEBs, let the show begin. Justice delayed is Justice denied, thats exactly what the RLA does to workers one of the very few things that the RLA allows is the sympathy strike and those crooks on the bench know that.

Yep. That makes one a crook...

Here's the judge's unofficial rating from lawyers:

http://www.therobingroom.com/Judge.aspx?ID=1422

He's got a 93% approval rating, and most of those casting votes LOST cases in his courtroom. If the losing side found him to be worthy of a high approval rating, surely he must be on the take... really.

Ah yes 8 responses. The comments are all anonymous, lets see his wife, him, his bother in law, sister in law, secretary, you, former moderator thats 8.

Setting up a picket line to try and block other unions from entering your property or struck work is one thing, but to put up picket line in an unrelated area intending to cause harm to unrelated people and companies is just a step removed from thuggery.

Nobody is prevented, they can walk by if they like, I'm sure you do every time you see a picket line. Thuggery? Guess you havent seen our paychecks. Never heard of a thug that stuck their money into other peoples pockets. Threatening to liquidate companies and throw people on the street, slashing wages while pocketing bonuses, cutting health benifits and stealing pensions, thats all just a day in the life of the gentleman buisinessman but setting up a peaceful picket and walking in circles in protest is thuggery in your book. If thats the case then I'm a thug, just like Martin Luther King, who also set up pickets and never recieved a bonus for liquidating a pension plan, just like Rosa Parks who sat in the white section and never cut anybodys wages, just like Ghandi who refused to obey the directives of his 'betters". At Amistar the 400 unarmed Indian dead were the thugs, not the Brittish soldiers. Are you sure you dont work for FOX News?