3 against 1
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I'll believe it when I see it. The APA's position in the past has been that the pilots are the most important employees in the company. Their needs should be fully met, and if there is any money left over, the rest can share it.
Exactly what they have said from the day I started over 25 plus years ago!
And I guess members of the TWU and APFA said "Lets make sure we leave enough for the other workgroups".
Come on now, you guys sound like Little. Back in 2000 when the APFA was having informational picketing Local 562 supported them even though Little told us not to. "Its not our fight" and "They arent part of the AFL-CIO". Many Pilots also joined the pickets.
What I would be leery of is Little. I would caution the democratically elected boards of the APA and APFA to realize that whatever they tell the TWU they are telling Arpey.
By the way half the story is missing. "American Airlines unions plan joint approach to talks
03:48 PM CDT on Friday, August 29, 2008
By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News"
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...s.240e2e48.html
The AFPA mentions that they lost 30% of their wages. It's important that we mention what we gave up, otherwise it sets us up to appear unreasonable. If you just came out and demanded a 40 % increase the public would be shocked but if you were simply demanding restoration of wages that you gave up in order to try and save the company then its much more reasonable, even if its 50%.
The APAs responsibility is to get the best deal for its members, not anyone else. It is also not the duty of the APA to manage employee costs. That is the duty of Mr. Arpey, despite the fact that he likes to throw it back on the unions as a negotiating ploy.
As far as needs being fully met, I'd say if we are now working for one-half the real pay we got it 1991, that our needs aren't anywhere near being met.
The other unions on property should concentrate on their negotiations and not expect the APA to negotiate for them.
Never said that I expected the APA to negotiate for me. However, I have had more than one of your illustrious members say to me that they thought that no other union should be allowed to negotiate at all until the APA had a signed CBA because the other unions were getting benefits that should go first to the pilots.
Even idiots are entitled to their opinion. One does not speak for all unless he was elected to do so by them. Those people speak for themselves. No group is devoid of idiots, not ground workers, not flight attendants not pilots.
Like I said there were several Pilots walking the APFA picket lines.
I would agree that No other unions should come to an agreement before the pilots because the pilots will most likely be the most successful negotiators and you can use their gains as your bottom line.
If the company says to the pilots "If we pay you this we wont have anything left for anyone else" how should the pilots respond? How would you respond? I persoinally would say "You are full of $h!+, finding money for pay is never a problem when it comes to YOU guys." but thats not considered appropriate etiquite.
Its a divide and conquer ploy and you are falling for it. Use your head.
enough already
Veteran
- Jan 8, 2003
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As long as the twAAu is in bed with the compAAy there is no hope for us coming out on top :blink: in these negotiations!!! :down:
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
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Not to worry folks.
The only 3 against 1 with a willingness to do what it takes to win was the not to distant AA/TWU/NMB against AMFA.
To think that the APA/APFA/TWU could hold together in the face of battle against AA is as obsurd as anything I have heard recently.
The wants/needs and goals of these 3 organization are easily divided and conquered when difficult negotiations really begin. AA is simply buying time right now, difficult negotiations have yet to begin.
The only 3 against 1 with a willingness to do what it takes to win was the not to distant AA/TWU/NMB against AMFA.
To think that the APA/APFA/TWU could hold together in the face of battle against AA is as obsurd as anything I have heard recently.
The wants/needs and goals of these 3 organization are easily divided and conquered when difficult negotiations really begin. AA is simply buying time right now, difficult negotiations have yet to begin.
I was actually looking at this as a positive thing because the APA leadership seems like they have a clue whereas the clowns running the TWU and APFA seem to be under the impression that they are still in concession negotiations.
If the pilots could understand the definition of SOLIDARITY and UNITY we could work together and get what we all want...
AN INDUSTRY LEADING CONTRACT!!
AN INDUSTRY LEADING CONTRACT!!
Okay, but define what "industry leading" looks like right now. No one at UAL, DL or anywhere else is getting big gains right now. I saw last week that the CAL pilots are pulling the same stunts that APA is. Industry leading might just be a short-term contract with a little bit of gain locked in for a couple years. No one in this industry is getting "snap back" right now.
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
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You guys can carp on the executives all you want to, but who is really to blame here? Their pay - by standards of similarly sized companies - is in line with executive compensation norms. I'm not defending the "norms", but in terms of exec pay in America they are not making the "big bucks".
Personally I think no one should get any payout or bonuses unless the company is turning a profit. Once the company gets back to black, it's up to your union leadership to negotiate a better deal for you. But don't begrudge the execs for something you all agreed to.
Personally I think no one should get any payout or bonuses unless the company is turning a profit. Once the company gets back to black, it's up to your union leadership to negotiate a better deal for you. But don't begrudge the execs for something you all agreed to.
