3 TWU Groups Had Enough

[DallasConehead]

Turd Hurst driver huh? Nice,,, There's a brain trust for ya.

 

[Bob Owens]

But do you have any part time mechanics currently?
 
 
I say its a cop out, blame everyone else except your fellow mechanic and related brothers and sisters who actually had the power to vote yes or no, and the majority voted yes, now didnt they?

Officially? Not sure, we had one for a long time, thats why the company would not eliminate the language. Unofficially we have loads of part timers who CS away days because this has become their second job.

Cop out? They did vote no, several times, ratified a stike vote as well but the International refused to push for a release but instead they kept bringing back even worse deals until after four years of BS thousands didn't bother to vote at all. It squeezed through by less than 1%. It passed because people who wanted out voted in favor and left, others voted out of fear because the leadership made it plain to see they had no intentions on leading a fight.

You have the typical Business Unionist schpeel, the leadership fails to lead then blames the members for losing the war. Bad Leaders lose wars, not bad soldiers.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

And who voted and ratified your CBA?
 
Was it the Negotiating Committee?
 
Was it the TWU International or the ATD?
 
Nope, it was the rank and file Mechanic and Related at AA.
 
How come Bob Owens wasnt your savior?
 
And you do realize AA was in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy and forced the unions into the Section 1113 C process?

Our pay and benefits were decimated in 2003 outside of bankruptcy.  The TWU agreed to renegotiate a contract that was 1 year old and used fear to get just over 50% to vote for it while withholding information such as an executive retirement fund until after the vote.  Then they found a federal judge to block us from voting again when we had the information they withheld.  Stock clerks and Fleet Service lost 15% of their pay and 5 holidays.  AMTs lost 17.5% of their pay plus the 5 holidays plus lost 100% sick time pay.  In 2013 while in bankruptcy and with $6 Billion in the bank the TWU secured skill pay for Stock Clerks and saved their 6th week of vacation and improved all their work rules while getting raises equal to what AMTs and FSC got.  Meanwhile the TWU left us with 50% sick pay for the first day, gave away our 6th week of vacation.  They gave away all of our retirement medical and our pensions.  Evidently the TWU shows by it's actions that it will continue to force inferior benefits on the AMTs.  While we lost much more than any other group in 2003 we gained less than the Stock clerks did in 2013.  The TWU did include a buy out that got them 48 votes over 50% and screwed the rest of us.  They also brought Title II in to negotiations who called for a roll call vote to bring the TA back that was unacceptable to all local officials except our own John Hewett in Tulsa.  The alliance you are backing will rubber stamp this kind of treatment as it has become the norm for the TWU to secure and protect benefits for every group except AMTs.  I don't like being treated that way and I will not support any organization that condones it.  I will also think a lot less of anyone such as yourself who justifies it.  The point I make is that the TWU had no right to even bring this crap back to a vote.  If they aren't going to demand equal benefits for the group that lost much more than any other by the TWUs own doing then they are stealing our dues money while they represent other groups and ignore our needs. I deserve the same benefits as a Stock Clerk who gets the same if not more percentage raises than me while keeping benefits that the TWU refuses to get back for me.  It is also unfair to include buyouts for yes votes that turn a no vote into a yes and leaves the majority who voted no left to deal with the crap.  The TWU has sold us out time after time and they tell us tough crap.  Yeah we wanted separate negotiations because we had morons in FS who dominated the union demanding $500 lump sum payments instead of 3% raises.  They had the numbers and forced that on us.  I doubt you would be singing the song you are if you had been hosed by your union.  You'll find out soon enough.  Your IAM settled for peanuts when AA made record profits.  They are no better than the TWU.  "We'll get em next time."  I'm tired of explaining this crap over and over.  It was WRONG no matter how you look at it and should have been rectified.  The TWU didn't bother to fix it and seems to have no problem treating AMTs as second class citizens.  Frankly I am insulted by anyone who does not have to live under this crap giving an opinion of how it is my fault or the AMTs fault.  It is the fault of the TWU International and their local 514 stooges who used scare tactics along with a bribe for yes votes.  It's easy for you to point the finger of blame when you don't have to deal with the crap.  If you are not under the AA contract then you don't have an opinion and quit trying to tell me who is at fault.  If you have been around industrial unions for any length of time then you know full well how they operate. 
     My name is OldGuy and I approve this message.

 

[Harold Nads]

 
One's classification has nothing to do with their intelligence, education, knowledge and skill set.
 
 

That is of course a ridiculous coattail industrial unionist statement.

 

[700UW]

Hmm, Me a business unionist?
 
Funny you were the one who was removed from office for being an AMFA supporter, yet you glady took office again with the TWU and then once again for the LL 591, so you are the one sucking off the TWU teat, not the members.
 
When was the last time you turned a wrench?
 
Seems you talk out of both sides of your mouth, you are one who whines and complains about the TWU and AA yet, you havent left and you continue to stay when there are plenty of opportunities out there.
 
So Maybe Thomas Paine will come post now.

 

[700UW]

That is of course a ridiculous coattail industrial unionist statement.

And yours is s typical elitist mechanic attitude, you proved it right there.
 
Yep, you and your fellow AA Mechanic and Related never met a concession you didnt like.
 
Use your brain for a change.

 

[Bob Owens]

Good luck with that. Title 2 will always be the die hard TWU guys that will pass the BS agreements because, they make good money for what they do. Hell, I'd change florescent lights for that money. No education, no degree,  no FAA breathing down their throats,no tools,other then a paint brush, making just $5 less? Sweet deal for them...

True Title II rolled over, may have been different if they were in our Locals, I know the Boston T-II that we had in 562 were more militant than the guys in NY who were not. If they were in our Locals during negotiations that deal would never have been brought back. As to their tools in my experience I see more Snap On boxes and tools in Automotive than I see in Aircraft maint where some guys slap a set a wheels on an old kitchen or filing cabinet and call it a rollaway.

 

[Realityck]

This is exactly the type of inter-work group conflict that USAir management has used to their advantage in the past to save close to a billion dollars in pilot compensation and, what is even more ironic, is that you are even using the same counsel who masterminded that fiasco (and was later fired by its victims) to create this new association.

I have question Reality Check. Do you see anyone from AA here looking to create hate and discontent? I don't. I only see you doing that. So either you are repeating everything Your president tells you, or you are just an international rep yourself. There is a great calm in my office and it seems the twu has you spinning in turmoil. You talk about Plowman like he has done something to you. Has he? Have you ever met him? Or is your venom only based upon what you hear. You can't say he is not a good representative. He has negotiated 2 better contracts then the one at US. Although you may want to blame him for the twa seniority, it was the AA membership that made a motion and voted to put them to the bottom. That drove the twu policy that will drive the aa/us date of hire merger.

Who is the attorney, I haven't heard his name. How do you know so much about it? Is it the twu scare and bully plan? Try not to let all that get to you. Try to find ways to bring 350 people together and not push them apart. It's not worth it. Maybe you should try to meet your counterparts here in the AA IOC. Hear what they have to say. Try to be positive.

 
 
 
It’s true that your Local had more than $650,000 in assets. In the last seven weeks you wiped out close to two thirds of those assets in an attempt to make sure that those left behind had as little as possible. And those people (the non AA sections) were not consulted about whether they wanted Local assets squandered in this way, nor was there a membership vote of any sort to authorize use of the money on gift certificates or the other expenditures which were obviously designed to help fund this decert drive.  People who do that sort of thing have no right to question Danny’s integrity.
 
I’m not an International Rep but I do know Plowman. You accuse me of trying to divide the group, but it was the concerted attempt to shut the USAirways leadership out of a meaningful role in negotiations and then, after they made it clear they were completely opposed to this disaffiliation, the attempt to go around them to try to secure the support of their members for this effort that has permanently divided the group. Plowman has earned the USAirways group’s distrust in many ways, not the least of which was refusing to agree to a date of hire integration of the USAir and AmWest dispatchers after he sponsored a resolution requiring date of hire integration between TWU represented groups at the convention.
 
As for the lawyer, you go research him. Better yet, go talk to his former clients at APA or USAPA and post their comments on this site.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Realityck.....It’s true that your Local had more than $650,000 in assets. In the last seven weeks you wiped out close to two thirds of those assets in an attempt to make sure that those left behind had as little as possible
 
 
I guess the TWU International dropping their assets in half from 52 million to 26 million works for us?
this is not including all they took in year over year.  And for all that money spent what did we get in return.....concession and concession.    Bad return on my investment i say

 

[Bob Owens]

Hmm, Me a business unionist?
 
Funny you were the one who was removed from office for being an AMFA supporter, yet you glady took office again with the TWU and then once again for the LL 591, so you are the one sucking off the TWU teat, not the members.
 
When was the last time you turned a wrench?
 
Seems you talk out of both sides of your mouth, you are one who whines and complains about the TWU and AA yet, you havent left and you continue to stay when there are plenty of opportunities out there.
 

Yep, you are a Business Unionist. cant debate the facts so you go off on tangents while you cowardly hide behind an alias. Cant defend your actions so you use the same line as the boss, don't like it leave. You call yourself a Unionist but you are nothing more than a bootlicker. You are happy to replace a Boss that pays you with one you pay, I believe Unions work for the members, not the other way around.

I was removed because I criticized the 2003 deal, they didn't like the truth. When I said the members come before the International they said that is conduct unbecoming of an officer.

I was elected by my peers, three times in four years. Five times altogether and never lost an election. I was never an appointed suck like you and I say what I feel needs to be said, unlike you who thumbs through a book of caned slogans when you cant think of a real response.

Last time I turned a wrench was Sunday. Pulled the pulleys off a 1998 Bombardier 951 Engine. Spent part of my last Vacation Rebuilding a trailer for my brother, replaced the brake system lights etc. Also installed an electric start engine and new clutch on my 1985 lawnmower and wired that all up, did a little bit of welding on one of the brackets as well. The Vacation prior to that I replaced the Injection pump on my 1996 Diesel and all the steel brake lines with stainless steel lines and the radiator as well. Also replaced the Compressor, expansion valve , drier etc for the air conditioning. I rebuilt the Diesel a few years back after it spun a bearing, during Sandy I used the Inverter in the truck to power up our Fridge and lights for the 11 days we had no power and thats when the Injection pump went. Sat since then because I didn't have the time to work on it.

Maybe I should have left, maybe I was foolish to believe that we would start to act like a Union and fight while Little was in place, maybe I should have told my wife to cut her education short so I could switch jobs (nah, she makes more than I do now) but I didn't, I'm still here, still fighting and will continue to fight as long as my peers keep sending me back. We have new leadership in the TWU, what does the IAM have? The same people as back in 2002 when the IAM had twice as many members and the members made more than they are making now twelve years later, eight years out of bankruptcy and a brand new deal with a company that just posted a $1.5 billion dollar profit they are still making less than they were in 2002!

 

[Bogey]

It’s true that your Local had more than $650,000 in assets. In the last seven weeks you wiped out close to two thirds of those assets in an attempt to make sure that those left behind had as little as possible. And those people (the non AA sections) were not consulted about whether they wanted Local assets squandered in this way, nor was there a membership vote of any sort to authorize use of the money on gift certificates or the other expenditures which were obviously designed to help fund this decert drive.  People who do that sort of thing have no right to question Danny’s integrity.
 
I’m not an International Rep but I do know Plowman. You accuse me of trying to divide the group, but it was the concerted attempt to shut the USAirways leadership out of a meaningful role in negotiations and then, after they made it clear they were completely opposed to this disaffiliation, the attempt to go around them to try to secure the support of their members for this effort that has permanently divided the group. Plowman has earned the USAirways group’s distrust in many ways, not the least of which was refusing to agree to a date of hire integration of the USAir and AmWest dispatchers after he sponsored a resolution requiring date of hire integration between TWU represented groups at the convention.
 
As for the lawyer, you go research him. Better yet, go talk to his former clients at APA or USAPA and post their comments on this site.

It wasn't 2/3rds. It was half. 300k left for the same amount of people that's in local 545 and it's more then double what 545. How much do they need? In addition, the twu for lack of leadership is going to lose Continental to PAFCA as well as Expressjet to PAFCA. So 300k left to maybe 150-175 people. Again I ask, how much?

And please remember that in these United States you are innocent until proven guilty. Not once person for the international has conducted an investigation into anything. They have not contacted anybody on the board. They are just like the company. Guilty with no investigation. You too have taken these allegations and have made at least plowman guilty. Is everything they say true. Is it possible that the international is just pissed and slinging mud? Is your president just taking advantage of an alleged situation? Should the hearing on August 12th be cancelled! Should we just take them out and shoot all 8 of them now?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Yep, you are a Business Unionist. cant debate the facts so you go off on tangents while you cowardly hide behind an alias. Cant defend your actions so you use the same line as the boss, don't like it leave. You call yourself a Unionist but you are nothing more than a bootlicker. You are happy to replace a Boss that pays you with one you pay, I believe Unions work for the members, not the other way around.
I was removed because I criticized the 2003 deal, they didn't like the truth. When I said the members come before the International they said that is conduct unbecoming of an officer.
I was elected by my peers, three times in four years. Five times altogether and never lost an election. I was never an appointed suck like you and I say what I feel needs to be said, unlike you who thumbs through a book of caned slogans when you cant think of a real response.
Last time I turned a wrench was Sunday. Pulled the pulleys off a 1998 Bombardier 951 Engine. Spent part of my last Vacation Rebuilding a trailer for my brother, replaced the brake system lights etc. Also installed an electric start engine and new clutch on my 1985 lawnmower and wired that all up, did a little bit of welding on one of the brackets as well. The Vacation prior to that I replaced the Injection pump on my 1996 Diesel and all the steel brake lines with stainless steel lines and the radiator as well. Also replaced the Compressor, expansion valve , drier etc for the air conditioning. I rebuilt the Diesel a few years back after it spun a bearing, during Sandy I used the Inverter in the truck to power up our Fridge and lights for the 11 days we had no power and thats when the Injection pump went. Sat since then because I didn't have the time to work on it.
Maybe I should have left, maybe I was foolish to believe that we would start to act like a Union and fight while Little was in place, maybe I should have told my wife to cut her education short so I could switch jobs (nah, she makes more than I do now) but I didn't, I'm still here, still fighting and will continue to fight as long as my peers keep sending me back. We have new leadership in the TWU, what does the IAM have? The same people as back in 2002 when the IAM had twice as many members and the members made more than they are making now twelve years later, eight years out of bankruptcy and a brand new deal with a company that just posted a $1.5 billion dollar profit they are still making less than they were in 2002!

Ouch. I hate working on lawnmowers.

 

[700UW]

Funny I didnt see any mention of turning a wrench at JFK on an AA aircraft.

 

[Bob Owens]

Funny I didnt see any mention of turning a wrench at JFK on an AA aircraft.

That wasn't the question. Last time I turned a wrench at JFK was March of 2013. However just went through another training class on troubleshooting around a month ago. Even when I do go back, the only wrench turning at JFK I'm likely to be doing is on OT , I'm a Crew Chief. Does that mean I'm not a mechanic?

When is the last time you turned a wrench on any airplane anywhere?

 

[Harold Nads]

Funny 700, you are not allowed to turn a wrench on any AA aircraft regardless of location. Why is that? Elitist government regulations requiring a class and craft FAA tested skillset?