AAA ALPA Thread 10/12 to 10/18

[AAA73Pilot]

From what you describe the problem lies within your own AAA leadership structure.

Leadership or structure? Have had lots of leaders for the last 20 years all working under the same structure. It proves once again that "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

As for the other stuff about how USAPA will do it differently, the effort may be commendable but will ultimately prove to be ineffective. Running a union by referendum will not work. Direct democracy vs. representative democracy such as USAPA is advocating is ripe with pitfalls that will only serve to confuse and then enrage the members. Will the votes be binding, non binding and who decides? It proves to be an enormously expensive way to govern and it opens up too many opportunities for coalitions with divergent agendas to establish themselves and tie up votes. The whole process will eventually become moribund.

Its not a question of totally direct vs. representative. Have posted on this many times. Certain issues require the super majority of votes affecting say the "Bill of Rights", other issues may require only a simple majority, then some may only require the rep's to vote while others may just require the leadership. The virtual voting mechanism under development will easily allow voting by the pilots and actually be the least expensive way to communicate. So "enormously" expensive it will not be. Computers are actually so cheap these days we can place them in the crew rooms for the cost of one mass mailing. Finally, coalitions and such will not be a problem because of the different levels of voting requirements. For example: Pay, benefits and working conditions changes would fall under the Bill of Rights and require a super majority of votes. In no case can one single person sign for issues that affect all pilots. It will be quite easy to keep the system from becoming "moribund" due to the block representation and ease of communicating. Each rep will have a smaller constituency to keep informed and represent.

I maintain that the only way to attempt to change the direction of current pilot representation is to establish a union and not an association. ALPA may seem to be a top down organization but the whole seniority integration debacle is proof that it is not. AAA has been asking ALPA to do things that ALPA is not allowed to do. If this were a union then the president could do what your MEC has been asking. The ALPA membership by virtue of their representatives put these policies into place, not national. In order to change things you have to start with the members and work your way up. You've been appealing to the wrong people. Prater, Rice, the EC etc., cannot possibly do what has been asked of them until the membership at each local lobbies their rep who then takes it to their MEC who then takes it on up the chain until it eventually reaches the BOD. That is a bottom up organization and the east has been lobbying the tail end of the donkey.

Lots of discussion went into the name USAPA. Since we would only represent the USAirways pilots, what's in a name? It's really about the structure and how we operate as a union. But since you bring up the need to speak to the membership at each member carrier, talk about "moribund", there would not be enough time or "unpaid volunteers" to present a case to each LEC at all the carriers of this association. Now that would be interesting if not impossible. Besides, most LEC meetings are poorly attended and binding votes affecting all LEC pilots are cast by the few. Because as you know, not all of the LEC pilots can be off on the single day of the month for individual LEC meetings.

What USAPA is asking for is a union yet they are holding themselves out to be an association which many feel has failed them. Why not look into becoming a union? That is really the only way to quickly deal with and solve the major issues the pilots of this industry are concerned about such as seniority integration and seniority in general.

See above. Once again, it's the structure, not the name.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

AAA73,

It has been an interesting exchange of ideas and I think you're a very good spokesman for the USAPA argument. We'll all have to wait and see how it goes. From what little I have read it just seems to me that the issue your organization has with ALPA is mostly in how your local reps and MEC are implementing ALPA at your property. I haven't seen this kind of complaint or dissatisfaction at other ALPA carriers rise to the level of action.

My only point to anyone considering voting is to look at the mechanics of ALPA and the proposed USAPA. I believe that USAPA will provide for an increased level of membership participation which will be important if any issue short of contract votes is to be moved. I also maintain that the average pilot member does not have such a level of interest to have to participate to the level that USAPA will require in order to prevent stagnation, corruption, abuse of power, secret agendas and most importantly the hording and select dissemination of information required to make an informed decision as a voter. The institutionalized protections contained in almost all organizations such as ALPA to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority will not be built into USAPA.

Outside of that USAPA as proposed looks a lot like my west MEC. Most of the things that you use as ammunition to dump ALPA doesn't happen on the west. The membership won't allow it and restrictions such as USAPA has proposed are written policy here on the west. I see a very powerful union in the east MEC. I see it as having run wild and without regard to others and that the membership is afraid to challenge.

I don't want to sound trite but have you guys traveled to and studied how other MECs operate? With the exception of a couple I say that most have absolutely no resemblance to the east MEC. The east apparently have written their own rules and protections and it seems that is what the average east pilot is rebelling against.

If USAPA is successful then I predict it will be exactly like the current AAA MEC only about 5 times worse. The membership will have access only to information the leadership wants them to have, information will not be complete when it is disseminated, the membership will be lied to and the leadership will ensure their own agenda is accomplished without oversight. That is how I see the AAA MEC operating today. It is not how an ALPA MEC is designed to operate. The problem starts with you, your rep and all the way up to the chairman. Reform them first then lets talk about another union. I'd suggest you start with the AAA FPL and expense policy abuse. What you say happens on your property just stuns me. I had no idea one could get away with that level of outright theft from the local budget. Then go to communications and gut that committee. Next I'd suggest a reality check and then try the USAPA thing!

I now understand why there is such an outcry for representational change on the east. The level of corruption and abuse is at levels I never believed possible.

Bob