AFA IS A FRAUD

[Bear96]

I think had they put an intelligent work for the membership team in office(PFAA), They would have been putting the heat to NWA management a week ago plus. Of course NWA would have gone for an injunction, A union working for its membership wouldnt have waited 10 days after to put the heat on.

Sorry to be dense, but if you agree that NW would have gone for the injunction anyways, what practical difference would it have made in the grand scheme of things?

I do agree that as a tactical decision to rally the troops and keep momentum going, AFA shouldn't have delayed things this long. They should have started the CHAOS countdown the day the concessionary contract was imposed. However, that would have little practical difference in how things ultimately evolved. And I suspect part of AFA's strategy of delay has to do with the fact that perhaps they know there is not a lot of support among NW members for CHAOS or striking, given that TA2 was only narrowly defeated -- but I don't have access to that type of info, and I suspect you don't either.

Come on Bear, you should know better than that.

You are now dealing with a therotical impossibility on hindsight technology. After the delays and extended timelines, what other conclusion would a reasonable person come up with?

UT

?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

If AFA was truly interested in applying any sort of pressure on NWA they could start honoring the AMFA picket line. PERIOD!

Its in their contract, they could not legally be prevented from doing so.

As for the legality of this current injunction, read the last part of this report carefully. This is where the current injunction itself becomes illegal, and will more than likely unravel quickly.

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalys...E&cm_ite=NA

Gropper said the 1932 Norris-LaGuardia act, another key tenet of labor law, "generally divests the federal courts of jurisdiction to halt strike activity in cases involving labor disputes," and that "nothing in the Bankruptcy Code or in the policies of bankruptcy law overrides the provisions of this statute."
He also found that previous cases have assumed a strike is permitted under bankruptcy law after the rejection of a labor contract.

 

[FWAAA]

As for the legality of this current injunction, read the last part of this report carefully. This is where the current injunction itself becomes illegal, and will more than likely unravel quickly.

That's the best you can do? Quote the Bankruptcy Judge's ruling? Sorry, but that doesn't pass the laughter test.

The fact is, there are no clear court rulings one way or the other on the issue.

Prelim injunctions or TROs aren't illegal. And nothing in the bankruptcy judge's opinion changes that. They simply freeze the parties so the judge has a few more days before deciding on the substance. He may issue a ruling that AFA has a right to strike. But he wasn't prepared to do that today.

 

[Bear96]

As for the legality of this current injunction, read the last part of this report carefully. This is where the current injunction itself becomes illegal, and will more than likely unravel quickly.

That is the interesting part in all of this.

The Norris-LaGuardia Act says that courts cannot enjoin unions from engaging in a legal strike. Apparently Gropper believed the strike would be a legal one, and this judge must have some basis to believe it potentially would not be legal -- in which case the Norris-La Guardia Act does not prohibit him from enjoining it (though I am still trying to find the actual decision from today to see what it says).

If that is indeed the case, I tend to think ultimately Gropper will be proven correct.

 

[FWAAA]

Whether the NW AFA strike is a legal strike is the whole issue, and one that Bankruptcy Judges really aren't prepared to decide. The District Judge wants a few days to decide.

Personally, I think that the RLA should be ignored when the airlines impose terms unilaterally on workers. Workers should be able to exercise self-help immediately when that happens.

For all we know, the District Judge will agree. But he wanted a few days to decide (during which he really hopes an agreement will be reached). Can't blame him. I'd do the same thing.

 

[Bear96]

Personally, I think that the RLA should be ignored when the airlines impose terms unilaterally on workers. Workers should be able to exercise self-help immediately when that happens.

I agree with you that workers should be able to exercise self-help immediately when airlines impose terms unilaterally on workers -- which is why I said I think ultimately Gropper's decision will be found to be the correct one. (However, minor quibble, I would say that that is consistent with the RLA, not "ignoring" it.)

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Whether the NW AFA strike is a legal strike is the whole issue, and one that Bankruptcy Judges really aren't prepared to decide. The District Judge wants a few days to decide.

Personally, I think that the RLA should be ignored when the airlines impose terms unilaterally on workers. Workers should be able to exercise self-help immediately when that happens.

For all we know, the District Judge will agree. But he wanted a few days to decide (during which he really hopes an agreement will be reached). Can't blame him. I'd do the same thing.

The point you seem to have missed is that unless he can explain otherwise he has no jusrisdiction to make any decision whatsoever.

the 1932 Norris-LaGuardia act, another key tenet of labor law, "generally divests the federal courts of jurisdiction to halt strike activity in cases involving labor disputes,"

 

[FWAAA]

I agree with you that workers should be able to exercise self-help immediately when airlines impose terms unilaterally on workers -- which is why I said I think ultimately Gropper's decision will be found to be the correct one. (However, minor quibble, I would say that that is consistent with the RLA, not "ignoring" it.)

Agreed. But some keep insisting that release from mediation and 30 day cooling off periods must be observed prior to self-help. So my use of "ignore" applies to those parts of the RLA.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Agreed. But some keep insisting that release from mediation and 30 day cooling off periods must be observed prior to self-help. So my use of "ignore" applies to those parts of the RLA.

Whoever keeps talking about that (mediation/30 day cooling off) direct them them to the sections in the RLA that discuss actions/consequences of a "Major Dispute" which NWAs actions certainly qualify as.

 

[big jimmy]

Whoever keeps talking about that (mediation/30 day cooling off) direct them them to the sections in the RLA that discuss actions/consequences of a "Major Dispute" which NWAs actions certainly qualify as.

People who never lived it or those who have and never bothered to read the rla do not know that once nwa imposed their will on the F/A's the 30 cooling period became a mute point. Nwa is using the system and the judges to enforce their will on their slaves. Because if your working there now that is what you are. If the afa had any nads they would call a strike on monday morning, it is their legal and moral right to do so. Failure to strike this airline is a travesty to all working men and women of this country. Your careers are over regardless of the outcome so walk out with some dignity

 

[chillers]

People who never lived it or those who have and never bothered to read the rla do not know that once nwa imposed their will on the F/A's the 30 cooling period became a mute point. Nwa is using the system and the judges to enforce their will on their slaves. Because if your working there now that is what you are. If the afa had any nads they would call a strike on monday morning, it is their legal and moral right to do so. Failure to strike this airline is a travesty to all working men and women of this country. Your careers are over regardless of the outcome so walk out with some dignity

I WOULD USE MY SICK DAYS WHILE I COULD, THAT WOULD ACCOMPLISH 2 THINGS BUT I WAS ALWAYS THE ONE THAT MGT DIDNT LIKE, GROW A SET LIKE THE MECHANICS DID, YES THEY ARE OUT THE DOOR FOR BETTER OR WORSE BUT THEY HAVE THIER PRIDE, PRIDE YOU CAN NOT TAKE AWAY................

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

The reason you lose all credibility is you attack a judge with wild charges that he is Corrupt? Where is your proof? Who bribed him?

This judge had several days to prepare for this case and his excuse is that he needs more time to study the "legalities". What a bunch of B.S.! The judge has been paid off by the ATA and NWA. Maybe even the AFA!

CHAOS now means: CAN'T HAVE AIRLINE ON STRIKE

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Again accusations without proof.

I'm pretty certain this judge had other cases to handle during those several days. Most Federal Judges have workloads that a Flight Attendent can't fathom.

Again he is being politically expedient, why make a decision right away when issuing a TRO will give the parties involved time to settle? That way he is off the hook for making an unpopular decision whichever way he rules.

But to accuse a federal judge of being bribed without evidence is ignorant and boorish

"That way he is off the hook for making an unpopular decision whichever way he rules.
"

Excuse me, but as a sitting judge he is supposed to make decisions based on the law as written, PERIOD! Popular or unpopular makes no difference. The fact that you imply it might be part of his decision making process is no less "ignorant and boorish" a premise as the post you take issue with.

 

[JAMAKE1]

For the flight attendants' sake, I really do hope that come Wednesday, the judge will uphold Judge Gropper's ruling...or rule that NWA-AFA can legally strike. But it sure does trouble me that first; AFA-NWA gave NWA management a 15-day notice to start CHAOS. Second; then delayed their 15-day notice to strike by another 10 days after the U.K. terrorists were thwarted. My fear now is that NWA F/A's could end up permanently working under their imposed contract (which we all know was voted down by 80% of the voting membership), with little recourse. My perception is that AFA doesn't really want to do what it MUST really now do...and that is to STRIKE and MEAN IT! NWA management appears to have little interest in restarting negotiations and probably won't do so until flights start being disrupted.

 

[Bear96]

. . . as a sitting judge he is supposed to make decisions based on the law as written, PERIOD!

What in your view, o wise one, should a judge do when s/he is confronted with a factual situation that is NOT specifically covered by the "law as written," or when two conflicting written laws appear to govern the situation?