Aircraft maint issues

[1AA]

Did some digging. Spoke to a few guys I know at other stations. Some are good union guys. Like I said earlier our maintenance issue is we are run by a Fleet Service union. Our negotiations in maintenance are moving on the last few hard items. GP feels we can get the scope issues resolved on middle ground but what surprised me was scope issues with fleets negotiations are lagging ours and that may hold things up for the rest of the groups. It's like a race to the bottom of the sacrificial pit. So all groups must have a T/A before all groups can vote on their separate T/A's. You can't make this stuff up unless your the Association. You wonder why guys are pissed off and signing AMP cards at a record pace. Amazing, truly amazing.

 

[swamt]

I don't mind.

http://www.local591.com/docs/Association Bulletin 810[1].pdf

Did some digging. Spoke to a few guys I know at other stations. Some are good union guys. Like I said earlier our maintenance issue is we are run by a Fleet Service union. Our negotiations in maintenance are moving on the last few hard items. GP feels we can get the scope issues resolved on middle ground but what surprised me was scope issues with fleets negotiations are lagging ours and that may hold things up for the rest of the groups. It's like a race to the bottom of the sacrificial pit. So all groups must have a T/A before all groups can vote on their separate T/A's. You can't make this stuff up unless your the Association. You wonder why guys are pissed off and signing AMP cards at a record pace. Amazing, truly amazing.

Indeed. Just as the bold paragraph in the update that AANOTOK posted. Over 2500 mechanics positions (jobs) gone. And the fleet outsourcing at the end.
Yea that's great progress huh??? Great movement in scope huh??? Looks to me to be great movement for the company not the membership.
Let the asso./TWU/IAM keep going as they will be the demise of their own firing just like the teamsters did for us.
Keep those cards coming in guys and good luck.

 

[MetalMover]

Indeed. Just as the bold paragraph in the update that AANOTOK posted. Over 2500 mechanics positions (jobs) gone. And the fleet outsourcing at the end.
Yea that's great progress huh??? Great movement in scope huh??? Looks to me to be great movement for the company not the membership.
Let the asso./TWU/IAM keep going as they will be the demise of their own firing just like the teamsters did for us.
Keep those cards coming in guys and good luck.

If done through attrition only....Better this way than happening through other means of reduction.

 

[WeAAsles]

You wonder why guys are pissed off and signing AMP cards at a record pace. Amazing, truly amazing.

That’s NOT what I’m reading in the comments section of the last posting on the TWU 514 Facebook page.

Sorry but as usual you can lie as much as you want but I’m reading that it’s already DOA.

 

[MetalMover]

That’s NOT what I’m reading in the comments section of the last posting on the TWU 514 Facebook page.

Sorry but as usual you can lie as much as you want but I’m reading that it’s already DOA.

THE LOCAL 514 PAGE? The union that wants to stay in business? THEIR facebook page?
We are supposed to believe that? I can tell you from where I sit, cards were signed by young and old alike before they hit the desk.

 

[WeAAsles]

If done through attrition only....Better this way than happening through other means of reduction.

And even if that came to pass it would still leave AA with something like between 13,000 to 14,000 more AMT’s than AMFA Represented SWA with around the same amount of planes.

Metal why do you think AMFA couldn’t gain more work after 6 years of negotiations?

I mean from reading their thread even after 6 years they’re STILL voting on concessions? WOW.

 

[MetalMover]

And even if that came to pass it would still leave AA with something like between 13,000 to 14,000 more AMT’s than AMFA Represented SWA with around the same amount of planes.

Metal why do you think AMFA couldn’t gain more work after 6 years of negotiations?

I mean from reading their thread even after 6 years they’re STILL voting on concessions? WOW.

Why leave UA/CO out of the equation. They got a pretty nice deal, but no great gains in outsourcing. Theirs was not a great landslide either. And they negotiated for over FIVE years and WITH THE SAME UNION?
So please, when you assail AMFA, keep in mind what the IBT did at UA/CO...again, no landslide in contract passage. Many people took their buyout and retiree medical. Something you ridicule older AAers of wanting.

And I hate to say it and hate to concede it...There WILL be concessions in some way shape or form for ALL of us at AA.

 

[WeAAsles]

THE LOCAL 514 PAGE? The union that wants to stay in business? THEIR facebook page?
We are supposed to believe that? I can tell you from where I sit, cards were signed by young and old alike before they hit the desk.

What I always love about these Drives is how it’s organizers and supporters always need to pretend how much larger it really is outside reality.

Swamp asking Buck if he thinks you can get the cards by the end of the month was priceless.

These are two comments from the same guy on the 514 page.

“Card drives are always a long shot especially at AA & if LUS doesn't sign then LAA has to pick up that slack, every single card drive at AA has failed & there have been a lot for several different Unions, I hope you make it but it is a long shot at best.”

“The TWU puts out negative updates just before every TA, I don't really know why they do it so I can only guess that it is so we will FEEL their pain of how difficult it is negotiating with the evil company..... LOL , that way when the offer isn't as good as people think it should be they still look like hereo's for getting what they could get with an evil company, its all posturing & not real, I still believe we are on track to a TA by sometime in September & will definitely be voting sometime this year, we don't have long to find out ..... just my opinion, I'm not buying the smoke screen because I've seen it before. .. LOL”

 

[Rogallo]

That’s NOT what I’m reading in the comments section of the last posting on the TWU 514 Facebook page.

Sorry but as usual you can lie as much as you want but I’m reading that it’s already DOA.

You truly do continue to amaze me. You sir are great entertainment!

 

[WeAAsles]

Why leave UA/CO out of the equation. They got a pretty nice deal, but no great gains in outsourcing. Theirs was not a great landslide either. And they negotiated for over FIVE years and WITH THE SAME UNION?

Because there are no “Trolls” from UA/CO coming onto our threads “every day” trying to undermine our Negotiators when they live in a real chithouse. Think what you want about that guy but I’m 100% positive his only goal is to undermine all of us at AA.

So please, when you assail AMFA, keep in mind what the IBT did at UA/CO...again, no landslide in contract passage. Many people took their buyout and retiree medical. Something you ridicule older AAers of wanting.

Holy crap where the hell did you get that I’m ridiculing people for wanting a buyout and retiree medical??? I want the same as well when my time comes. And I want those guys to have that NOW and not have to wait till a JCBA.

What I will ridicule is the greed to get it throwing the rest of us under the proverbial Bus. Yes screw them. I’ll be more humble when I reach that time.

And I hate to say it and hate to concede it...There WILL be concessions in some way shape or form for ALL of us at AA.

There will be concessions on language as other language is strengthened. But you can call it concessions if you want even if I would call some of these things trades.

They traded my 30 cents longevity for a $6.00 pay raise. I’m not exactly going to scream bloody murder about it.

 

[MetalMover]

Because there are no “Trolls” from UA/CO coming onto our threads “every day” trying to undermine our Negotiators when they live in a real chithouse. Think what you want about that guy but I’m 100% positive his only goal is to undermine all of us at AA.

You keep reminding us of AMFA's ongoing negotiations and concessions at SWA. But you never mention the FIVE years UA/CO took. That was the point of my response to you. You keep reminding us of SWA's outsourcing numbers but never mention that SWA STARTED out with that outsourcing model.

Holy crap where the hell did you get that I’m ridiculing people for wanting a buyout and retiree medical??? I want the same as well when my time comes. And I want those guys to have that NOW and not have to wait till a JCBA.

I guess it was this post over at AA and Labor relations:

WeAAslesVeteran
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#6283WeAAsles, Today at 8:56 AM
↑
Racer, let me ask a simple question. What is the harm in letting the members have a voice? What is the Association afraid of. We obviously know what happens without a vote, why not see what happens with the MEMBERS speaking. Despite what one loudmouth contiinually claims here, there is a desire for many to have a say now.
The “loudmouth” is the “greedy prick” who doesn’t want to let our Negotiators finish because he saw all the MONEY the Company was offering and he has a TON of seniority so he has nothing to worry about AND he’s planning to retire in 4 years so he wants to BANK as much into his retirement account as he possibly can.

With people like you out there I hope they hold off and don’t accept ANYTHING until the day after you walk out the door.

What I will ridicule is the greed to get it throwing the rest of us under the proverbial Bus. Yes screw them. I’ll be more humble when I reach that time.

Everyone has said that and will continue to say that until their time comes. You don't know what the future has in store for us.

There will be concessions on language as other language is strengthened. But you can call it concessions if you want even if I would call some of these things trades.

Unless of course we are speaking about AMFA.

They traded my 30 cents longevity for a $6.00 pay raise. I’m not exactly going to scream bloody murder about it.

I got mine?

 

[767 mechanic]

And even if that came to pass it would still leave AA with something like between 13,000 to 14,000 more AMT’s than AMFA Represented SWA with around the same amount of planes.

Metal why do you think AMFA couldn’t gain more work after 6 years of negotiations?

I mean from reading their thread even after 6 years they’re STILL voting on concessions? WOW.

You are something else. You call people a liar and then you turn around and tell a whopper like you just did. AA would have 13,000 to 14,000 AMTs after losing 2500??????? There is only 7200 on the title 1 list. This includes AMTs, cleaners and OSMs. Actual AMTs would be around 6200 to 6300. So how do you get to the 14,000??????

 

[MetalMover]

You are something else. You call people a liar and then you turn around and tell a whopper like you just did. AA would have 13,000 to 14,000 AMTs after losing 2500??????? There is only 7200 on the title 1 list. This includes AMTs, cleaners and OSMs. Actual AMTs would be around 6200 to 6300. So how do you get to the 14,000??????

Maybe it's the new math they teach in schools these days?

 

[WeAAsles]

You are something else. You call people a liar and then you turn around and tell a whopper like you just did. AA would have 13,000 to 14,000 AMTs after losing 2500??????? There is only 7200 on the title 1 list. This includes AMTs, cleaners and OSMs. Actual AMTs would be around 6200 to 6300. So how do you get to the 14,000??????

I’m sorry my numbers were wrong. Jeez I’m turning into old Swampy. BTW your numbers are way off too though. I know you guys don’t want to count them but you have to also add those IAM guys into the mix. According to the Seniority Integration list you have a Total in M&R of 14,028.

Of course we know today those numbers are a give or take.

On a side note just by that list alone you need 7015 people in the space of one year to sign cards for AMP. That’s a hell of a lot of cards.

Anyway here’s the numbers.

http://www.usaamerger.com/seniority-lists/

 

[MetalMover]

I’m sorry my numbers were wrong. Jeez I’m turning into old Swampy. BTW your numbers are way off too though. I know you guys don’t want to count them but you have to also add those IAM guys into the mix. According to the Seniority Integration list you have a Total in M&R of 14,028.

Of course we know today those numbers are a give or take.

On a side note just by that list alone you need 7015 people in the space of one year to sign cards for AMP. That’s a hell of a lot of cards.

Anyway here’s the numbers.

http://www.usaamerger.com/seniority-lists/

View attachment 13172

Your numbers were more accurate once upon a time at the height of our headcount for AA alone.