ALPA/USAPA Topic for week of 1/24 to 1/31

[AAA73Pilot]

AAA73Pilot, I was not trying to "get you." ...if you think ALPA can't solve it...don't fool yourself....

I am not fooling myself. ALPA cannot solve this mess. The majority of your fellow pilots believe ALPA cannot solve this mess. If anything, the one thing that I have learned in the last 7 months is that ALPA's structure is geared to cover failure. While ALPA plays the internal blame game, the rank and file is left holding the bag. Past, present and you so succinctly put it.......the future.

Now that we have a new ALPA defender on board, please inform the readers here looking for answers how the almighty ALPA and its flawed (In my view) structure is going to solve this self inflicted mess?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Interesting last minute shotgun wedding between the idea of some protection under law...and magically being "happy with the Nik award that resulted from ALPA's policy". On what planet do notions of codified legal protections couple with "ALPA's policy", and actually coexist as entities of equivalent weight and import?

More like on what planet do "negotiate and submit to binding arbitration if necessary" mean different things depending on where they're written. You can call it EastUS's perfect merger policy and it is the same process used to integrate the HP/US lists. So if you think this law contains great protections that ALPA's policy didn't provide you in this merger, you're the one living on some other planet. But it appears that you have company.

Jim

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

Fellow Pilots,

Without a doubt, the most frequent question we hear is, “When will we vote?†Now that the NMB has rejected Herndon’s delaying argument that two airlines might still exist, Feb. 6th has been set as the last date that the NMB will receive election request documents from US Airways pilots. (To ensure delivery from this point forward, please overnight your replacement election requests direct to the NMB; click here for details.) The Company will be asked to provide a list of eligible pilots and our signature samples after that. The Company might be provided as much as two weeks to provide the materials. We’ll let you know as these details come in. BallotPoint has told us the NMB uses their services for voting. Each of us will receive a letter from the NMB with voting instructions prior to the vote.

Other questions we hear have to do with infrastructure. Now that we have arranged for our pre and post-election office space, Admin Committee Chairman Gary Bauhan and I have been working on insurance, information technology and office-outfitting issues. We’ll convey the completion of each item as we finish. Things are progressing well on all fronts.

USAPA has selected the Charlotte firm of C. DeWitt Foard & Company, PA as our CPA. This firm specializes in non-profit organization work. USAPA interim President Stephen Bradford and I visited the firm last year and are well-pleased with the selection. Because USAPA will have an annual income stream of more than $10,000,000 per year, the US Airways pilots will have a significantly higher level of real resources to gain and defend contract working conditions as compared to our current situation where significant portions of our dues dollars disappear into Herndon’s black hole. Our accounting firm will ensure that we account for your dues dollars in an open and transparent manner.

Regarding insurance, the principals of Empowered Benefits plan to attend the USAPA road-show in Charlotte on Friday February 8th. Representatives of Harvey Watt have also indicated they plan to attend. Please stop by to meet USAPA’s officers, volunteers, lawyers and our insurance vendors. PowerPoint presentations will play all day regarding structure and services, logo items will be available and handouts will be provided on a number of topics. Pizza will be provided at lunchtime.

By now most of you have had a chance to read the two unsigned attack pieces on Lee Seham and his firm. I infer from all the noise that Herndon’s ACPC is ‘concerned’ that USAPA just might have arranged for the gold standard in labor representation. We are very pleased with the advice and service we have received and find that Lee’s firm fares well in any ethical comparison to Herndon’s choice. The current AWA Chairman (AWAPA decert) and the ALPA president (IACP) have both used Lee’s services in the past and thanked him in writing.

 

[end_of_alpa]

End-of-ALPA you are right....I too could never get into a bar fight cause must of the guys were always bigger than I was...though just sitting on the sideline waiting for them to get kicked out always worked. AAA73Pilot, I was not trying to "get you." I used the words MITIGATE, PROCESS....ohhh....scary? I have read most everything from the company, the acpc, USAPA, ALPA, A/M so I am able to use any words in order to describe our situation....and believe me it is our situation....and its a very precarious one....if you think ALPA can't solve it...don't fool yourself....I don't think we know if USAPA or anyone can solve it. Remember whether we like it or not, this is not our last merger. Just like the West, maybe we also have to face reality one day...problem is, I don't think we know what that is....btw; no this is not Jack Stephen...ha.

Just checking! VBG! USAPA can solve it. But it takes a village....oh wait, that line is taken.

Seriously, USAPA is just what all unions require...sweat equity. It will take a lot here, I'll grant you that. But ALPA has definitely screwed themselves on this issue. No doubt about that.

 

[pilot]

"More like on what planet do "negotiate and submit to binding arbitration if necessary" mean different things depending on where they're written. You can call it EastUS's perfect merger policy and it is the same process used to integrate the HP/US lists. So if you think this law contains great protections that ALPA's policy didn't provide you in this merger, you're the one living on some other planet. But it appears that you have company."

Jim




Just so I'm clear here Jim:

Do you feel DOH with conditions and restrictions is an unfair way to merge seniority lists?

I'm looking for your opinion. Not what has happened in the past or the future or what we asked for, they asked for, or what the arbitrator ruled. I'm asking YOUR opinion. Simply the question.

Do YOU feel DOH with conditions and restrictions is an unfair way to merge seniority lists?

While your opinion or mine is worthless I am curious.

pilot

 

[pilot]

Oh, one more thing:

Never mind. Let's vote!

 

[CactusFlyr]

You will now be "assimilated".

Oh Yeah, "Resistance is Futile" - please

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Respect "our" authoriti'

 

[EastUS]

More like on what planet do "negotiate and submit to binding arbitration if necessary" mean different things depending on where they're written. You can call it EastUS's perfect merger policy and it is the same process used to integrate the HP/US lists. So if you think this law contains great protections that ALPA's policy didn't provide you in this merger, you're the one living on some other planet. But it appears that you have company.

Ok..This has now become laughable. Exactly WHAT "great protections" did/does "ALPA's policy" provide for ANYONE? ANY, even the slightest address by the law that affords the least bias towards length of service certainly serves my notions well. Does this legislation protect people from ALPA?..That's another issue entirely...but there are ways to take care of that.

We differ tremendously in that I've never felt the need for any "policy", and find the very concept to be hopelessly absurd. It seems that we do live on "seperate planets". Imho: Establishment of actual seniority within any given trade has zero to do with "expectations", and is properly a function of length of service. Anything else is rubbish, and is based purely upon opportunism. Only an utter fool could ever even imagine that any given "policy" or "process" will ever produce consistently acceptable results that preclude the sort of strife now seen around campus at US.

Given that your postings are universally of the pro-ALPA persuasion: Has Alpa and it's "processes" and "policies" helped either east or west groups throughout this "merging"?....Have said brilliant "processes" done anything other than produce a debacle of biblical proprtions? Would not date of hire have entirely prevented this fiasco, and long ago allowed forward movement on contractual issues?

 

[EastUS]

Oh Yeah, "Resistance is Futile" - please

Yes, yes..we all know..."Final and Binding!/It's OVER!/etc" We've been hearing that since May :blink: FYI..Your pic's of Data, a very independant thinking character, and not a Borg

 

[PHLBUS]

AAA73Pilot; I am not here to get into a nip-pick argument with you. However, this is part of the problem (one of them) that I see with usapa. Just because I have questions or I’m willing to look at things a different way, I'm labeled an ALPA supporter....that's no way to convince me to vote for USAPA. Just like ALPA saying USAPA is bad won't make me vote for ALPA. And you are correct; it is a "SELF inflicted" mess (at least we should own-up to some of it). We did this to ourselves....We voted for LOA 93 (some of us) WE let the current union leadership remain....WE let them lead us with the rhetoric that all is going to go our way (DOH). Believe me I'm not happy with the AWARD but I have questions about where to go from here. Listen to other Fellow pilots (not just the ones with your same opinions, and also other pilots from other airlines (NOT WEST) about what potentially devastating fight we might be and I say might be getting into....

 

[CactusFlyr]

Ok..This has now become laughable. Exactly WHAT "great protections" did/does "ALPA's policy" provide for ANYONE? ANY, even the slightest address by the law that affords the least bias towards length of service certainly serves my notions well. Does this legislation protect people from ALPA?..That's another issue entirely...but there are ways to take care of that.

We differ tremendously in that I've never felt the need for any "policy", and find the very concept to be hopelessly absurd. It seems that we do live on "seperate planets". Imho: Establishment of actual seniority within any given trade has zero to do with "expectations", and is properly a function of length of service. Anything else is rubbish, and is based purely upon opportunism. Only an utter fool could ever even imagine that any given "policy" or "process" will ever produce consistently acceptable results that preclude the sort of strife now seen around campus at US.

Given that your postings are universally of the pro-ALPA persuasion: Has Alpa and it's "processes" and "policies" helped either east or west groups throughout this "merging"?....Have said brilliant "processes" done anything other than produce a debacle of biblical proprtions? Would not date of hire have entirely prevented this fiasco, and long ago allowed forward movement on contractual issues?

It offers those that have a job the ability to keep their job and position, not get replaced or jumped by those without a job.

 

[EastUS]

It offers those that have a job the ability to keep their job and position, not get replaced or jumped by those without a job.

So would protective fences...and..the west position on those was/is?...Refresh my memory :blink: It's never been my thinking to dump west pilots out of their situations. A little reason within the west position would've certainly helped things along, but has never been seen on these boards..unless you consider such gems as "Ho Ho Ho St Nic is coming to town"/etc/ad nauseum as providing fertile ground for any efforts at compromise. We'll have to eventually work things out.

First point of business though = Let's VOTE!

 

[Phoenix]

It is speculative and premature to conclude what ALPA can do or plans to do versus what USAPA can do or plans to do to bring this merger to completion under a joint contract.

Since it is increasingly evident that there will be an election, the relevant question is not so much the ones being asked about ability and intent but is instead 1) “which CBA do you trust to do it?â€￾ or perhaps 2) “Are your interests better served by a CBA representing multiple carriers (according to their constitution and bylaws that mandate multiple carriers) or a single carrier (whose constitution and bylaws are founded on a single carrier)?â€￾

We should not forget that as we approach the election any successes or proposals for a solution, by either CBA, will serve as a great stepping off point for whichever CBA is elected.

The question is which CBA has the better constitution and bylaws and to some extent which do you trust to actually follow them?

 

[PHLBUS]

I couldn't agree more, wish I knew what the west position really is...and I know is not what's on this board, just like ours in also skewed...at least by emotions. Though WE (our MEC) used absolutely no reason when they went for the Hail-Mary of DOH and nothing else...but I guess you are also correct...A vote we will have.