AMFA at AA- consolidated thread

No I think what is killing you is that little ole AMFA is a direct threat to your 1.4 million member strong union. If AMFA was not a big threat you would not be spending so much time and effort on this board. Why do you care so much if we get AMFA or stay with the TWU? Your Teamsters are 1.4 million strong so what major harm could little ole AMFA possibly do to your behemoth powerful union?
NONE AS THE NMB STATES:
DISCUSSION
Section 1203.2 of the NMB’s Rules and Section 1.02 of the Board’s
Representation Manual (Manual) set forth the requirements for applications for
the services of the NMB under Section 2, Ninth, to investigate a representation
dispute among a carrier’s employees. AMFA’s application fails to meet these
requirements.
Manual Section 1.02 states that “only applications with original
Signatures submitted to the NMB’s office in Washington, DC, and accompanied
By original authorization cards will be accepted. Applications and
Authorization cards will not be accepted by facsimile or electronic mail.”
Accordingly, the facsimile application from AMFA received by the Board on May
28, 2013 is not a valid application.
Manual Section 1.02 further provides that the requirements of NMB Rule
1203.2 must be satisfied and therefore to be valid. Manual Section 1.02 (1)
May 31, 2013
Page - 3 -
States that the application must be “signed by the chief executive officer of the international or national organization or other specifically designated and
authorized officers.” (Emphasis added). Neither the facsimile application received May 28, 2013 nor the original application received May 29, 2013 was signed by AMFA’s chief executive officer of the international or national organization. Both were signed by George Diamantopoulos whose title is listed as “Attorney.” He is an attorney with the firm of Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen in White Plains, New York. No specific designation or authorization from AMFA’s chief executive officer to Mr. Diamantopoulos for purposes of filing an application was provided to the Board. Accordingly, AMFA’s May 29, 2013 original application is not a valid application.
Manual Section 1.02(4) requires that the application be “accompanied by signed authorization cards from the employees in the craft or class in dispute.” AMFA’s May 28, 2013 facsimile application was not accompanied by cards. While the May 29, 2013 original application was accompanied by original signed authorization cards, as discussed above, it did not contain the required signatures.
Even assuming AMFA’s May 29, 2013 original application was validly signed, the supporting authorization cards were received after the Carrier had filed the List and signature samples. It is the Board’s longstanding practice and policy not to accept authorization cards after the List and signature samples have been filed. See United Airlines, 8 NMB 508 (1983) (denying intervenor status to organization whose only authorization cards were filed with the Board after the carrier filed applicable list of potential eligible voters).
The Manual Section 3.3 states that an “applicant or intervenor may present the Investigator with additional cards up until 4 p.m., Eastern Time on the day the Investigator receives the applicable list and signature samples.” AMFA’s cards were not received until the day after American filed the List and samples. Accordingly, these authorization cards cannot be accepted by the Investigators to support AMFA’s application. See, Northwest Airlines, 5 NMB 250 (1976), upheld by Int’l Ass’n of Machinists v. National Mediation Board, 409 F.Supp. 113 (D.D.C. 1976)(finding Board’s rejection of intervenor’s untimely showing of interest was a decision within Board’s discretion and unreviewable).

As I said IMO AMFA was short cards and the NMB confirms Lack of AMFA support at AA!


http://www.teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/53113R7365LettertoParticipantsAAIBTAMFATWU.pdf

HAVE A HAPPY IBT DAY!
 
Yes I believe we all know what you posted. So how is AMFA a threat to your IBT? How do you know that AMFA was short on cards? Did the NMB release the final count? Did the IBT release how many cards they submitted? Did the NMB release the final number of eligible voters? Did AMFA release how many cards they attempted to submit. Again AMFA must be scaring you because you assume they were short on cards to make your point that they have no support. So if they have no support why all these anti amfa postings from Anomaly and Travis? Why are you even posting here attacking AMFA? Face it guys regardless of the outcome you guys feel threatened by AMFA even though they did not file in time. You guys either have a personal issue with AMFA or have a personal agenda with the Teamsters. I wonder by your posts if you guys are AMT's. If you are do you really care about the craft? Thousands of us do. It is obvious you two guys do not. Continue with your bashing. The rest of us will focus on our Craft and ways to improve it. In the meantime I will continue to educate my fellow AA AMT's about the potential election and the WRITE IN option. The Write In option has been discussed system wide and you will be surprised how many are willing to use it. Once the guys know about it then they will realize that the Teamsters is not the only alternative to the TWU. As long as a ballot comes my way AMFA is a player in the game.

At AA the teamster supporters are saying they are better.
With lies like

We can force the company to open the contract by law.
They were proven wrong by the TWU, IAM and little ole AMFA.

It is illegal for the teamsters to go after our company pension.
More lies. There is nothing stopping the company to transfer our pensions to the IBT.
They even wanted to dump it to the PBGC.

We promise we will not go after the ramp people.
Oh really? Can they put that in writing? Continental come to mind?

We can better represent you than the TWU and AMFA.
How can they with NO maintenance locals? How can we be better represented with a Business agent Assigned by a president of a local that has nothing or no experience in Aviation? How can we be better represented being assigned to a local where we are outnumbered? Tulsa our biggest base will be assigned to a local in Houston, TEXAS! Wow Texas for a local where all the members are in Oklahoma. How is that better representation?

And for all this lack of representation we have to pay more in union dues.
Part of the dues collected by the Teamsters goes to a strike fund. Have any of the legacy carriers been released to go on strike? So we will be funding a strike fund that we will never ever use. My money going to financially support a Teamsters agenda.
NO THANKS. I will stick to my little ole AMFA.

WRITE IN AMFA on the ballot is the only choice for anyone who truly cares about our craft.

Go ahead and keep bashing AMFA if you must. Many of the guys I talk to face to face do not want the Teamsters and hate the TWU more. When the Write In option is explained to them all of a sudden they get interested. But do not worry AMFA is so small compared to the 1.4 million Teamsters it should not threaten you? Right?

Your continued posts will answer my question if I am correct or not.

Type away I know you guys can not resist.

Have a wonderful AMFA day!!
 
There you go amfa guys...just keeping adding to the story until you get the version you want. Next this ALR will have a hump and bite the heads off baby rabbits....

You guys kill me :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wrong again Anomaly. Not adding nothing to any story as you claim. Below I have provided a posting of mine in another thread about the ALR recall, the date was 5-29-13 @ 1:59pm Posting #3. AND this was the first posting about the issue and you claim we are adding to it. Nice try, but you are just upset that AMFA has a policy to remove anyone that the membership sees fit to be removed and your union cannot do so, period; happy reading: "In a nut shell, our ALR took it upon himself to have 6 premium positions removed from the bid board. The co put up 18 inspector slots for the new 4th line. Our ALR desided to send an E-mail to all the top wigs from managers all the way up to and including GK. He stated he wanted only 12 positions put up for bid so the inspection dept could still work all the overtime they wanted. His actions have in fact blocked many members from advancing not only into premium insp slots but also blocked many, many other members from reeling the awards of trickle bidding into better days off, better positions, better work locations etc ect. His E-mail was only sent to management he did not CC anyone with the union and he says he did it all on his own. This sent the membership bizurk. Therefore he has been put under the recall process per AMFA's constitution."
 
I did not play the honey badger video, therefore did not vote on it.

Well by all means, play it.

I thought it was one of the funniest videos I have seen. We can go back to beating each other up later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4r7wHMg5Yjg
 
No I think what is killing you is that little ole AMFA is a direct threat to your 1.4 million member strong union. If AMFA was not a big threat you would not be spending so much time and effort on this board. Why do you care so much if we get AMFA or stay with the TWU? Your Teamsters are 1.4 million strong so what major harm could little ole AMFA possibly do to your behemoth powerful union?

I would not say its a threat to the 1.4 million member union, but it may be a threat to the $11 million investment they put in to get the mechanics at AA. Imagine what a kick in the nuts it would be if AMFA walked away with "the prize" through a write in and only a few thousand dollars spent?

I think what the members need to know is what are the rules?

What exactly will the ballot look like? will it be
TWU
IBT
Other
No-Union?

In order to win will one candidate have to get a majority (50%+1) of the votes cast? With the TWU its always been whoever gets the most votes gets the job, undemocratic since if there are multiple candidates its possible that people get in without the consent of the majority of votes cast. I'm not sure but I think the rule is majority of votes cast are needed and they have run-offs in representation elections.

Many who would write in AMFA will vote IBT if they believe that its simply who gets the most votes and not that someone must get a majority of votes cast.

If one selection must get 50% +1 then AMFA will do well and there could be a runoff between AMFA and the IBT. But if guys think that by voting for AMFA they are helping the TWU stay in place then they will vote IBT.

If a majority vote is needed to win, and not simply the most votes making sure the mechanics are aware of that would do much to redeem what is undoubtably an embarrassing situation for AMFA, and if the worst case scenario by writing in AMFA instead of voting IBT was a runoff between the TWU and IBT then there is a good chance of instead having a runoff between the IBT and AMFA.

The IBT has several things going for it at AA and US compared to the unions on the property;
Their contracts pay better
They currently represent more mechanics at more carriers than any other Union
Guys feel that their size offers more clout(wrong, but many feel that way)

But they also have several things against them;
Their track record on outsourcing simply does not match their rhetoric (Helps the TWU in Tulsa)
Their structure is the exact opposite of what mechanics want, Mechanics don't want appointed BAs from other industries telling them what to do.
Their Pension has a lot of bad press, warranted or not many mechanics don't want what's left of their pension getting tied up with the union, any union.
Their dues are much, much higher, so we would be paying a lot more with no real guarantee that they could do anything for us till 2018.
They are notorious for not bringing grievances forward, so we would be paying a lot more but getting less.

Right now the feeling from the guys on the line is they want AMFA, but even more so they want the TWU gone, and they are willing to pay more in dues and be lumped into Locals with other industries just to be rid of the TWU(its not like they go to Union meetings anyway). If they believe that writing in AMFA could result in the TWU staying on the property then they will vote IBT. If they feel that the worst thing that could happen by doing so would result in a runoff between the TWU and IBT then they will vote AMFA.

Then again, lets see if there will even be a vote.
 
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I would not say its a threat to the 1.4 million member union, but it may be a threat to the $11 million investment they put in to get the mechanics at AA. Imagine what a kick in the nuts it would be if AMFA walked away with "the prize" through a write in and only a few thousand dollars spent?
Wow, that would be appx. $1000.00 per head to attempt the raid. I never saw a penny. Regardless, you cannot buy support for poor representation. Most of the $$ went to the appointed stooges that spew lies, or anything the member wants to hear, to get support.
 
Wow, that would be appx. $1000.00 per head to attempt the raid. I never saw a penny. Regardless, you cannot buy support for poor representation. Most of the $$ went to the appointed stooges that spew lies, or anything the member wants to hear, to get support.
And you will never see a penny of your dues at work for you either. My guess is those organizers are paid pretty well and they pulled out the stops.Now they are hoping to reap the reward$

Here is how I see it. If the rules are that a majority of votes cast is required then an AMFA write in has a very good shot. The line wants the TWU gone, they are willing to vote IBT and pay higher dues just to see that happen. So if the majority is needed and the IBT did have enough cards then it actually puts AMFA in a much better position, let the IBT spend millions and still have to fight off AMFA.

Looking at the electorate I see four voting blocks (of course they aren't really blocks and there will be people all over the place but to simplify it I will just look at them as blocks. Line AMT, Tulsa, AFW, Title II.

Line AMT wants AMFA but more importantly wants the TWU gone. If the worst thing that could happen by writing in AMFA is they end up with the TWU they will vote IBT, if the worst that can happen is a run-off and they are informed they will write in AMFA.

Tulsa will support the TWU, not 100% but the same 74% that's still there who voted for the contract will vote for the TWU, the variable is how much of that 74% is still there? Assuming some were hit with the reduction and many left with the buyout I don't think that the majority of those left in Tulsa voted in favor of the concessions.

AFW will not support the TWU.

Title II will likely support the IBT for the same reason they support the TWU. Title II does not want to be in a Union controlled by Aircraft mechanics.
To me for AMFA to have a shot at a write in the rules must state that a majority is needed. The TWU would get pretty much zero support from AMTs line or Title II on the line.
So lets say the 2500 Line mechanics write in AMFA, 1000 vote IBT, then 2000 514 members vote TWU, 1500 IBT and 1000 AMFA, 750 in AFW go AMFA, 250 go IBT then 1200 Title II go IBT with 300 TWU. Its possible as long as the guys feel that by writing in AMFA they are not helping the TWU, we would then see a runoff between AMFA and the IBT. If those are not the rules then I see the IBT with a blowout with the IBT getting 2/3rds of the vote.
 
I asked guys at work how many would vote for the TWU. Room went silent. It really did, no exaggeration. So if AMFA gets in on the write in and IBT gets votes as well it will remain to be seen if either AMFA or the IBT get 50 +1. With little support for the TWU I believe that they will be gone on the first vote if a majority is voted in or if there is a run off the TWU will not be in the run off. Unfortunately the IBT supporters are spreading more lies on their response to the write in option is if you write in AMFA you will split the vote and the TWU wins by default. (TOTAL LIE NOT TRUE) I have posted the NMB rep manual on numerous posts with a reference to the sections that cover this and a run off explanation. But guys would rather listen to a IBT guy instead of educating themselves.

Here it is again. http://www.nmb.gov/r...tion-manual.pdf

Section 13 pages 15 to 20 (Internet voting)
Section 14 pages 20 to 24 (Paper ballot)
Section 16 page 25 (Run off rules)

If there is a election called. This will be the order of choices as per the NMB manual.

1) TWU
2) IBT
3) WRITE - IN
4) NO REPRESENTATION

The number 3 choice is where we should all write in AMFA.
I feel the TWU will be out regardless if there is a run off or not.
 
Last night I read a email from the TWU International. Short version is the TWU now has a anti Teamsters campaign. As far as I see it the only thing the TWU can do is campaign against the Teamsters in Tulsa where many will be brain washed again to believe the TWU is the better choice. I doubt if they will go all out to discredit the Teamsters. This will convince many that the Teamsters is worse than the TWU and we do not want the TWU because we have been screwed over too many times. So if we educate people on the Write In choice this can only help get more Write Ins for AMFA. The TWU is treading on sensitive ground here. If they push too hard against the Teamsters then the Teamsters does not look as Rosy as they claim to be. This can only help AMFA with more WRITE - IN votes. This is where AMFA should now kick it in high gear to push for the Write In vote. Guys around the system everyday are being informed about the write in. AMFA organizers around the system are pushing the write in. This I know from all the forwarded emails that I have been receiving. AMFA now needs to take the bull by the horns and lead the charge. The TWU Campaign against the Teamsters is AMFA's best friend.
 
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