AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[Paul Too]

Mea Culpa! Mea Culpa! I may be drunk and stupid.....I thought I was bringing in another perspective and I had a happenstance conversation with a co worker who lived through the demise of NWA! I should have read up on the events from the union perspective. I did not! I was wrong! But all this leads to AMFA and potentially bringing them on board at American. It's obvious their hands were tied at NWA! My Apologies to all!

 

[Paul Too]

Mea Culpa! Mea Culpa! I may be drunk and stupid.....I thought I was bringing in another perspective and I had a happenstance conversation with a co worker who lived through the demise of NWA! I should have read up on the events from the union perspective. I did not! I was wrong! But all this leads to AMFA and potentially bringing them on board at American. It's obvious their hands were tied at NWA! My Apologies to all!

And Animal House is one of my favorite movies!

 

[swamt]

Paul Too:

Like you say you KNOW if they voted the contract in that MGMT wanted they would of lost 40% of the current workforce. So they TOOK A STRIKE VOTE and the members voted to STRIKE. NOT AMFA..

Paul Too & AIM;

I was told by a Dallas NWA striking member at DFW while we were walking the picket lines that if they did agree and voted that offer in made by management, it would have made their mechanic and related ranks 53% smaller, gone and on the streets. His words were; "when you have to vote away 53% of the jobs, the company wanted us to vote to strike, they forced us to vote for striking by making and offer that would reduce the jobs by 53%, it was a no brainer, that the company would get at least 53% "NO" votes."
Would also like to note, that most do not remember (except for X-NWA mechanics and related) as well as other NWA employees, management not ONCE fought against the mechanics voting to strike. DID NOT call out the PEB to step in and force an agreement, DID NOT call on the gov to overrule a strike and never once begged them to not strike. NWA management and of course CEO wanted them to strike so bad so they could get with Delta and maintain a union free environment except for the Pilots group at that time. It was all fully planned out and orchestrated by upper management and pretty much went as they planned.
Now I do and always will hold the "old school" AMFA accountable for their mistakes way back then. They should have struck as early as when they found out the co. was training outsiders and scabs to come in and take over, instead they waited too late to start the strike as they aloud the company to better prepare for the mechanics and related to walk out. The other forces that killed the strike was the IAM, TWU and even other union groups that did in fact cross the picket lines and EVEN had IAM members outside mechanics group take over mechanics duties to help out in the shortages of mechanics. The teamsters also crossed the picket lines EXCEPT for one group of teamsters, an outsider group that delivered parts and deliveries. It was the "truckers" teamsters that were the "ONLY" ones that refused to cross that picket line with their trucks, there is video of many trucks arriving, getting out and having discussions and turning those trucks around and gone. So kudos to the teamster truckers for not crossing. As far as all other union groups, SCABS and traitors. The fourth killer was Delta pushing and getting everything Delta wanted ot of NWA prior to completing the merger of these two airlines and remain as union free as possible in the end, and they got just what they wanted from the CEO and upper management of NWA.
I will end with AMFA has made changes from way back when as we have all seen over the decades as well as recently with the fiasco almost 7 years of nego's at Southwest during record upon record quarters and years of huge increased profits and great years. The industrial unions were pushing for AMFA to call for a strike vote and strike. They simply wanted AMFA to do this only so they could possibly fail again. AMFA learned from NWA and remained extremely and very professionally calm and collective and stayed involved heavily with communications and gathering support from ALL the other unions on property as well as outside unions for support. They also were very active in communication to the membership keeping us very informed of every single move and events that were going on at the table as well as on the floors and the games the company were playing. They very successfully waited it out and the company finally came to their senses and brought in an outsider from Alaska to finally get a deal done over one 4 day weekend of nego's. There were very high directors, managers, and other negotiators moved to other jobs after it was all over with as the company saw what they were trying to do, AND we are still seeing to this day some more moving around of these folks that were responsible for that huge fiasco of 7 years nego's. One more is left though. We shall be patient though since we just came to another agreement over our lawsuits, claims and counterclaims. Millions upon millions was spent and wasted by the company because of the games played by these nego groups and folks that were trying to break AMFA at Southwest, well it failed big time and the company will not allow that to happen again.
Like I said, AMFA has learned from their mistakes in the past at NWA so you ca all stop "trying" to use the NWA fiasco against them. You guys always seem to forget that that contract AMFA did get over at NWA was the industries best contract in one sitting EVER produced in our industry, PERIOD. And has since maintained the best industry contracts now at SWA, Alaska, and soon to be at Horizon, as well as hopefully Spirit and AA very soon, or at least representing soon.
Sorry for the long post, but sometimes ya just gotta send out reminders here and there to counter the lies, mistruths and confusion mixers that love to stir the pot...

Edited:
Paul Too, Not calling you the spreader of misinformation at all, but I feel the guy you are talking with is. As MIA said he is probably a very strong IAM backer and still holds a major,MAJOR grudge against AMFA just as does TWU'ers and teamsters still do to this day.
We too lived it Paul, walked a many picket lines, my local 11 supported and paid NWA guys and gals mortgages, gas bills, car notes, elect bills, daycare bills and yes in full when they showed proof up to a many many hundreds of thousands of dollars while they were on strike. We triggered many other unions to step in and give support also like the automotive unions, the EU unions, and many others joined in. Just double check the folks who are feeding you the info, there are still folks out there trying to destroy AMFA to get them to go away because AMFA makes all the industrial unions look bad. Stay safe and healthy...

 

[Paul Too]

I wasn't trying to cast any doubt from bringing AMFA to AA.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

the EU unions

I have no use for the EU.

It is a failed socialist experiment.

That is why Brexit.

Personally I can't wait for the whole damn thing to implode.

If you are dealing with the EU in ANY way as far as I am concerned you are collaborating with communist trying to push a one world government. What the hell else would you call it when countries surrender their sovereignty to the collective?

 

[swamt]

I wasn't trying to cast any doubt from bringing AMFA to AA.

I know that.
It's just that these anti-AMFA folks start coming out of the woodworks whenever AMFA's popularity picks up speed during card drives.
Horizon did a very quick and quiet card drive, and Spirit should be wrapping theirs up too with a vote soon I think, AA? Well they are close but not quite there as of yet, but it would be wise for them to get a class and craft union in there before any disruptions start trickling down and especially prior to any worse issues that may come down the road at the end and after this COVID crap is settled down.
I just hope you guys are at least voting by summer.

 

[1AA]

I know that.
It's just that these anti-AMFA folks start coming out of the woodworks whenever AMFA's popularity picks up speed during card drives.
Horizon did a very quick and quiet card drive, and Spirit should be wrapping theirs up too with a vote soon I think, AA? Well they are close but not quite there as of yet, but it would be wise for them to get a class and craft union in there before any disruptions start trickling down and especially prior to any worse issues that may come down the road at the end and after this COVID crap is settled down.
I just hope you guys are at least voting by summer.

I've seen this ANTI-AMFA posts many times before. It usually ends up being union guys who fear losing their cushy positions in the International level. This usually means a filing is close. With Spirit Airlines and American Airlines doing a drive this brings exposure out in the forums and word starts to increase of a possible threat to the financial stability of the association. September is around the corner. Hopefully some movement in the area of NMB filings for either or both will occur. Hate to have the association with it's two dysfunctional unions continue fighting with each other when major issues come up and they pawn it off to an Arbitrator to decide to avoid taking responsibility.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

With Spirit Airlines and American Airlines doing a drive this brings exposure out in the forums and word starts to increase of a possible threat to the financial stability of the association.

I thought the association was unique to American Airlines is that not so?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I need to ask a question.

Used to when you put in for title 1 and were awarded a position you were in that position from that time forward barring any unforeseen events.

Now you have to bid your shop every 4 months.

Why?

Frankly this is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life. Basically you have low seniority people being ping ponged all over the base. How can someone be trained for a job like that? Even if you do get trained after the bid you might not see that shop again for months or years so you have to be retrained the next time you bid that shop. It can't help but hurt productivity. I would also like to ask the membership...... WTF were you thinking accepting that in the contract? I honestly don't see how that benefits the UNION and it damn sure does not benefit the company having to retrain everyone every 4 months.

Jesus..... you fools who voted for that dumb sh*t really are proof you can't fix stupid.

 

[1AA]

I need to ask a question.

Used to when you put in for title 1 and were awarded a position you were in that position from that time forward barring any unforeseen events.

Now you have to bid your shop every 4 months.

Why?

Frankly this is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life. Basically you have low seniority people being ping ponged all over the base. How can someone be trained for a job like that? Even if you do get trained after the bid you might not see that shop again for months or years so you have to be retrained the next time you bid that shop. It can't help but hurt productivity. I would also like to ask the membership...... WTF were you thinking accepting that in the contract? I honestly don't see how that benefits the UNION and it damn sure does not benefit the company having to retrain everyone every 4 months.

Jesus..... you fools who voted for that dumb sh*t really are proof you can't fix stupid.

The IAM was in full control of the negotiations. Many articles are IAM way of doing things. The TWU had no say for the most part or it seems that way . Either way its over. The JCBA is a done deal at least in writing.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I need to ask a question.

Used to when you put in for title 1 and were awarded a position you were in that position from that time forward barring any unforeseen events.

Now you have to bid your shop every 4 months.

Why?

Frankly this is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life. Basically you have low seniority people being ping ponged all over the base. How can someone be trained for a job like that? Even if you do get trained after the bid you might not see that shop again for months or years so you have to be retrained the next time you bid that shop. It can't help but hurt productivity. I would also like to ask the membership...... WTF were you thinking accepting that in the contract? I honestly don't see how that benefits the UNION and it damn sure does not benefit the company having to retrain everyone every 4 months.

Jesus..... you fools who voted for that dumb sh*t really are proof you can't fix stupid.

LaLILULELO;

Since you are No longer part of AA or even the industry, & it must be quite a while Now. When Union contracts become ammedable and get negotiated what ever language that is not addressed it remains. The ASSociation was just trying to protect itself in this deal. Many at AA thought our contract was long ammedable since the negotiation process started way before it should of been. Money was the driving factor for many, & Let's get what we can NOW. Many are also at the end of their careers so this will be the last contract for them.SOOO fixing the language that does not affect them was way down on the list. That has Been the AA way for the 40+ yrs I have been in the industry. Tulsa for the longest time ruled so whatever they wanted we all got. No Matter how it affected the rest of the workforce. That is why for a LONG Time there was a RIF between Line and Base.

The line stations have been bidding every 3-4 months for 22 yrs that I know of maybe longer. Here in MIA we had a 6 month bid for a couple of yrs. The IAM ran this negotiations and got alot of what they had, I believe the Company & Association did that since the IAM Rolled over many times at USAir. SOO Going forward they could get more in later contracts. The Union is a business and is looking out for itself, NOT US..

For all of the reasons I have listed along with being able to remove top officers, separate from ramp & stores, attend contract negotiations, this is why I have for 22 yrs NOW have been involved in ALL AMFA Drives.

You are if my guess is correct a Tulsa guy, back then AA had lots of NON-A&P's in the shops, they made less money, now that is not the case and AA has to deal with what the TWU allowed them to contract out. It is what it is.

Just watch how much they (AA) contract out as we work our way through this CV19 and contract. I don't believe many in Aircraft Maintenance will get hurt, but Facilities & GSE in M&R will be cut drastically. AS they cut flights to the smaller cities the ramp and stores will take hits.

The TWU and Maybe the IAM will be saying we will get em next time, but how many times have you heard that ?

For ALL of the M&R guys who have NOT signed a AMFA card yet Now is the time or for the next 10+ years you will be SCREWED...

 

[swamt]

I need to ask a question.

Used to when you put in for title 1 and were awarded a position you were in that position from that time forward barring any unforeseen events.

Now you have to bid your shop every 4 months.

Why?

Frankly this is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life. Basically you have low seniority people being ping ponged all over the base. How can someone be trained for a job like that? Even if you do get trained after the bid you might not see that shop again for months or years so you have to be retrained the next time you bid that shop. It can't help but hurt productivity. I would also like to ask the membership...... WTF were you thinking accepting that in the contract? I honestly don't see how that benefits the UNION and it damn sure does not benefit the company having to retrain everyone every 4 months.

Jesus..... you fools who voted for that dumb sh*t really are proof you can't fix stupid.

Could it be a perfect example of not reading the language of the contract and only seeing the $$$? Another great example "read between the lines".

 

[Rogallo]

Well yeah. Isn't it really all about how much wealth an individual can amass in their lifetime?

I know IGM!

 

[richardhead]

I need to ask a question.

Used to when you put in for title 1 and were awarded a position you were in that position from that time forward barring any unforeseen events.

Now you have to bid your shop every 4 months.

Why?

Frankly this is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life. Basically you have low seniority people being ping ponged all over the base. How can someone be trained for a job like that? Even if you do get trained after the bid you might not see that shop again for months or years so you have to be retrained the next time you bid that shop. It can't help but hurt productivity. I would also like to ask the membership...... WTF were you thinking accepting that in the contract? I honestly don't see how that benefits the UNION and it damn sure does not benefit the company having to retrain everyone every 4 months.

Jesus..... you fools who voted for that dumb sh*t really are proof you can't fix stupid.

Why are you even concerned about the efficiency of AA? Are you still in fleet there or have you moved on with your career? The company agreed or asked for it. Best part for the junior people now is they gain experience in multiple areas instead of being locked into one humdrum slot for years.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Why are you even concerned about the efficiency of AA? Are you still in fleet there or have you moved on with your career? The company agreed or asked for it. Best part for the junior people now is they gain experience in multiple areas instead of being locked into one humdrum slot for years.

Since I, as a taxpayer, start supporting your 80 percent overstaffed payroll, that's when.