AMR/APA might be nearing a deal!

[Super FLUF]

Yep, when the evidence is unanimous, start calling people names and disparaging their living arrangements.

The evidence is "unanimous" only in the eyes of people that look no further than raw numbers and the opinion of others.

You are choosing to get your opinions and data from two very sketchy sources. Please list the economic curriculum vitae of your heroes Vaughn Cordle and Bob Herbst. Please include degrees received from and College or University they attended.

Has either one been kicked out of their respective unions?

I don't work for the failing company you work for

Then why are you even on this board? Are you concerned that the employees here just couldn't survive without your erudite opinions?

 

[Buck]

I am not sure which thread to post in: Rumor is that the company was given a 4% raise and it is that raise and of course other things that are causing the pilots to resist.....

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, you are right, FWA... a key word was indeed missing.
.
As for WN, they have kept labor peace by throwing good money at their employees because their business plan allowed them to do so and by maintaining a very insular culture. With a "routine" merger on their hands (rife w/ the labor turmoil that is typical of airline mergers) and their business plan no longer delivering the level of profits that once enabled WN to throw money at their employees, there are certainly dark clouds on the horizon for WN... they've got a well built house but you still can't ignore that the weather has deteriorated.

I am not sure which thread to post in: Rumor is that the company was given a 4% raise and it is that raise and of course other things that are causing the pilots to resist.....

can you clarify? Who gave what to whom?

 

[Super FLUF]

I am not sure which thread to post in: Rumor is that the company was given a 4% raise and it is that raise and of course other things that are causing the pilots to resist.....

True. Pay and scope are the major stumbling blocks.

Here is the situation summed up:

On pay, the company wants us to sign up for pay rates that are on par with carriers like Spirit, Allegiant, or Frontier. This just simply is not going to happen. If the company wants these rates, they are going to have to fight to get them in bankruptcy court. They are going to have to explain to the judge how we should be paid 30-50% less than "low cost" carriers like WN.

The company's scope proposal would open up unlimited domestic code share. In a nutshell, this would allow the company to outsource as much flying as possible. They would be able to stick the AA code on the flight, and collect revenue for doing nothing - a virtual airline. No labor bricks to deal with. For a group in over their heads and unable to properly run an airline, it is no wonder why this is the preferred course of action. Unlimited domestic code share would result in the loss of THOUSANDS of pilot jobs. If you think that the other employee groups would fare any better, think again. Loss of dozens of mainline aircraft to other domestic carriers means loss of jobs across the AA spectrum. Once again, if the company wants this, they can fight for it in bankruptcy court. There is NO WAY IN HELL we will just give this away. Not even for the best pay rates on the globe. What good is high pay rates if you don't have a job?

Could the company get these things in a bankruptcy filing? Yes. However, they are not automatic and they have to make a case for them. In the instances of pay and scope, what they are asking for is far worse than even the industry average of previously bankrupt carriers like United and Delta.

Restore or restructure. Concession stand closed.

 

[737823]

Restore or restructure. Concession stand closed.

Rest assured, the company will achieve the concessions one way or another. AA can not continue on its current path and its clear labor costs are the white elephant in the room. When AMR ultimately files, workgroups will have concession IMPOSED leaving no recourse.

Josh

 

[Mr Red]

Rest assured, the company will achieve the concessions one way or another. AA can not continue on its current path and its clear labor costs are the white elephant in the room. When AMR ultimately files, workgroups will have concession IMPOSED leaving no recourse.

Josh

They need to get on with it!!!!as far as I'm concerned it should have happened in 2003.There will be no more volutary B/Ks at AA.

 

[IORFA]

FILE! Wipe out the losers stock options, then can their collective a$$es. They are not going to get any concessions without feeling some of the loss themselves. They suck at their job, now it is time to be "rewarded" for their accomplishments. If you completely mismanage a company, then you should be fired. Let's go BOD, start the FIRING!!!!!

 

[jimntx]

Can I have an AMEN from the choir!

 

[Buck]

yes, you are right, FWA... a key word was indeed missing.
.
As for WN, they have kept labor peace by throwing good money at their employees because their business plan allowed them to do so and by maintaining a very insular culture. With a "routine" merger on their hands (rife w/ the labor turmoil that is typical of airline mergers) and their business plan no longer delivering the level of profits that once enabled WN to throw money at their employees, there are certainly dark clouds on the horizon for WN... they've got a well built house but you still can't ignore that the weather has deteriorated.


can you clarify? Who gave what to whom?

After the clarification by Fluf, I quizzed an AAMOD at Tul an hour ago, he stated that he was not sure about the 4%, but Level 4 Production Supervisors who were below industry levell in pay were given a 3% raise to catch up. This was while we were discussing lateness of the aircraft in the dock for the ADL being out of whack.

 

[eolesen]

After the clarification by Fluf, I quizzed an AAMOD at Tul an hour ago, he stated that he was not sure about the 4%, but Level 4 Production Supervisors who were below industry levell in pay were given a 3% raise to catch up. This was while we were discussing lateness of the aircraft in the dock for the ADL being out of whack.

If AA has had to increase the minimum salary for off the street hires (which is the main source of prod supvs, no?), then they have an obligation to increase the pay of those already on payroll but below the new minimum.

It's the same regardless of the workgroup. Anyone below the floor rate gets an increase. Not much different than when the Feds or a state increases their minimum wage.

 

[Buck]

If AA has had to increase the minimum salary for off the street hires (which is the main source of prod supvs, no?), then they have an obligation to increase the pay of those already on payroll but below the new minimum.

It's the same regardless of the workgroup. Anyone below the floor rate gets an increase. Not much different than when the Feds or a state increases their minimum wage.

This might be stretching the thread, but that is exactly the TWU's path. To give every member an equal increase. It is very possible that there might be some contract negotiation problems from the company's view.

 

[odie01]

http://www.dfw.com/2011/11/19/540479/dallas-cowboys-cheerleaders-2012.html#storylink=skyline

 

[eolesen]

This might be stretching the thread, but that is exactly the TWU's path. To give every member an equal increase. It is very possible that there might be some contract negotiation problems from the company's view.

But that's not what management does. There are no equal increases.

If they increase the floor, and you're a five year employee who is now $1 above the new floor, you don't get an increase. You just wind up at the bottom rung of pay again. I saw it happen a couple times.

And increasing the floor doesn't mean the ceiling gets raised. Back when AA was still profitable, on a couple occasions, people at max got nothing at all in the annual pay plan when the junior and middle guys were getting 3-4%.

 

[Buck]

But that's not what management does. There are no equal increases.

If they increase the floor, and you're a five year employee who is now $1 above the new floor, you don't get an increase. You just wind up at the bottom rung of pay again. I saw it happen a couple times.

And increasing the floor doesn't mean the ceiling gets raised. Back when AA was still profitable, on a couple occasions, people at max got nothing at all in the annual pay plan when the junior and middle guys were getting 3-4%.

I am specifically referring to a contract negotiation scenario. That is what I meant by the company having a problem. Fleet Service is up first right now. It appears that they might turn down this T/A. When and if this T/A is ratified, then the Maintenance and Related will get their shot. The question is will the company plan to pay compensation to both groups at the same percentage. If I understand you, then the answer is no. In my experience this is not the way of the TWU in negotiations. You can see where the company might have to adjust one groups compensation to accommodate the other. I see this as Industrial compensation and not Occupational compensation.


reposting: Level 4 Supervision received a 3% increase, but only at the bottom.

 

[TWU informer]

Can I have an AMEN from the choir!

Amen