Delta passengers upset because pilot doesn't show

[700UW]

http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/weird/2014/05/30/delta-passengers-upset-because-pilot-doesnt-show/9756615/
 
http://bcove.me/gx2553ms

 

[Kev3188]

Dear America--
 
This is what FAR 117 looks like. 
 
Have a good time.
 
Love,
 
Commercial Aviation.
 
P. S. 24 hours? Really? No rebooking options? No train, rental car, nothing? 

 

[700UW]

What I find it hard to believe isnt JFK a crew base?

 

[Kev3188]

Right?

 

[robbedagain]

given the big ops hub they have and no crew base?  what were they smokin...   i would not be surprised to see a lawsuit against dl for this.   at least dl gave them 100 gift card 

 

[swamt]

The news video stated that Delta finally put passengers in hotels but only after alot of complaints from the passengers.  
Here's a question, why did pilot #2 say he would fly knowing that he would time-out?  Then another after taxing to runway?  Something does not add up here.  It almost looks like the pilots are trying to show the company the results of the new rest rules in compare to the number of pilots they have.  Could it be a tactic to get co to hire more pilots instead of stretching out the pilots there?  Could it also be a tactic to get the the pilot intro pay up higher as well???

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't like to get into these types of debates that are essentially media versions of passenger complaints because none of us have all of the facts involved and the media has zero interest in making sure they have the full story before publishing.

However there are a couple facts about this which are publicly apparent.

The flight in question is operated by Endeavor on a CR9 and has been a DCI flight for years; I have taken it although it has been operated by different operators.

JFK is the 4th largest station for 9E behind DTW, MSP, and CVG. If combined with LGA, 9E operates about 75 flights/day for DL from NYC.

I don't know if 9E has a pilot crew base at NYC or JFK but it isn't a given that 9E has the resources at NYC that DL has.

The pilots might not have been NYC based to have timed out at the beginning of the day, although it is possible they could have had a line that involved an overnight at their domicile.

Further, if there was bad weather in NYC as well as the typical morning traffic congestion, what little margin a pilot might have had to finish the flight could have evaporated.

Kev is right that this is the result of 117 and is compounded at the regional carriers who are stretched to cover their own schedule under ideal situations let alone cover IROPS that inevitably happen.

 

[swamt]

I don't like to get into these types of debates that are essentially media versions of passenger complaints because none of us have all of the facts involved and the media has zero interest in making sure they have the full story before publishing.

However there are a couple facts about this which are publicly apparent.

The flight in question is operated by Endeavor on a CR9 and has been a DCI flight for years; I have taken it although it has been operated by different operators.

JFK is the 4th largest station for 9E behind DTW, MSP, and CVG. If combined with LGA, 9E operates about 75 flights/day for DL from NYC.

I don't know if 9E has a pilot crew base at NYC or JFK but it isn't a given that 9E has the resources at NYC that DL has.

The pilots might not have been NYC based to have timed out at the beginning of the day, although it is possible they could have had a line that involved an overnight at their domicile.

Further, if there was bad weather in NYC as well as the typical morning traffic congestion, what little margin a pilot might have had to finish the flight could have evaporated.

Kev is right that this is the result of 117 and is compounded at the regional carriers who are stretched to cover their own schedule under ideal situations let alone cover IROPS that inevitably happen.

"I don't like to get into these types of debates..."
 
Then don't!!!

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not debating it. I am simply stating facts. The flight was operated by a Delta Connection carrier which may or may not have a crew base in NYC. Unless you can answer whether Endeavor does, your statements are simply flamebait.

If Endeavor doesn't have a crew base, or even if they did and couldn't replace the pilots, then they likely were willing to try regardless.

Feel free to beat the dead horse if you wish but the only real answer comes down to whether 9E had the ability to replace the crew. If they didn't, the rest of your statements are nothing but flamebait esp. since there is no evidence that 9E has any current labor related operational problems.

 

[700UW]

I'm not debating it. I am simply stating facts. The flight was operated by a Delta Connection carrier which may or may not have a crew base in NYC. Unless you can answer whether Endeavor does, your statements are simply flamebait.

If Endeavor doesn't have a crew base, or even if they did and couldn't replace the pilots, then they likely were willing to try regardless.

Feel free to beat the dead horse if you wish but the only real answer comes down to whether 9E had the ability to replace the crew. If they didn't, the rest of your statements are nothing but flamebait esp. since there is no evidence that 9E has any current labor related operational problems.

Game Set Match:
 

ABOUT ENDEAVOR AIR
Endeavor Air, a wholly owned subsidiary of Delta Air Lines, has more than 4,000 employees. Flying as Delta Connection, Endeavor Air operates regional jets up to 1,000 daily flights for Delta Air Lines to more than 100 cities in the United States and Canada. The headquarters is located in Minneapolis, MN, and main pilot domiciles are located in Detroit, Minneapolis and New York. (JFK).
 
We are well known for running a safe, reliable and on-time airline, providing a professional and comfortable air transportation experience to our customers. We take pride in hiring the most qualified associates that strive to grow and develop their careers and our organization.
 

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Game Set Match:
 

Touche!

 

[metopower]

So let's get this right. DL stepped up and gave hotel rooms and vouchers for a mistake that Endevor Air made? This should be moved to the regional airlines thread.

 

[jimntx]

It's not a question of the media misnaming the guilty party. It's human nature. An independent regional may very well have been the culprit, but, the name on the side of the airplane said DELTA Express. The ticket was probably sold by DELTA. And, many of those passengers either connected from or were connecting to a DELTA flight. As far as they can see, it's a DELTA mistake.

This is a sore spot with me when people start trying to say, "It's not my fault. I don't owe any compensation here. etc" The bank I currently use (not for long) contracts out their ATM services. Half the time the ATM machine is either not working at all, out of cash, or out of paper to print receipts. The bank employees will quickly tell you that "it is not our ATM machine. It is operated and maintained by an outside company." With them no matter what the issue, it is always "they, them, or it did it. We take no responsibility (or liability) for the mistake."
As far as the ATM, I pointed out to the branch manager that the machine has the name, Bank of Texas on it. It is located in the parking lot of the Bank of Texas. It is where I attempt to do after-hours business with the Bank of Texas and access my account at Bank of Texas. As far as I am concerned it is Bank of Texas' ATM machine.

A lot of airlines, AA included, contracted out their regional flying in order to save $2 bucks per passenger. Well, sometimes that chicken comes home to roost.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Excellent post Jim.

BTW, it bothers me when English majors say ATM machine. That, and a hot water heater.

But carry on.

 

[Kev3188]

So let's get this right. DL stepped up and gave hotel rooms and vouchers for a mistake that Endevor Air made? This should be moved to the regional airlines thread.

 
As they should've. That's just how it goes. The customers don't know it's (fill in the DCI carrier of choice here), nor do they care.   
 
And our employer doesn't want them to anyway...
 
At any rate, I'm sure someone in a back corner of Accounting will get it all squared up. 
 
 
 

It's not a question of the media misnaming the guilty party. It's human nature. An independent regional may very well have been the culprit, but, the name on the side of the airplane said DELTA Express. The ticket was probably sold by DELTA. And, many of those passengers either connected from or were connecting to a DELTA flight. As far as they can see, it's a DELTA mistake.

This is a sore spot with me when people start trying to say, "It's not my fault. I don't owe any compensation here. etc" The bank I currently use (not for long) contracts out their ATM services. Half the time the ATM machine is either not working at all, out of cash, or out of paper to print receipts. The bank employees will quickly tell you that "it is not our ATM machine. It is operated and maintained by an outside company." With them no matter what the issue, it is always "they, them, or it did it. We take no responsibility (or liability) for the mistake."
As far as the ATM, I pointed out to the branch manager that the machine has the name, Bank of Texas on it. It is located in the parking lot of the Bank of Texas. It is where I attempt to do after-hours business with the Bank of Texas and access my account at Bank of Texas. As far as I am concerned it is Bank of Texas' ATM machine.

A lot of airlines, AA included, contracted out their regional flying in order to save $2 bucks per passenger. Well, sometimes that chicken comes home to roost.

 
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